Autosave question

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pigfender
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Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:53 pm Post

StefanG wrote:I think it's the frequency of autosaves in combination with my notebook. When I decrease the autosave value in other software from my present 10-15 minutes down to 1 minute, the noises also pick up.


If you set the Scriv save to 300 seconds do the noises drop off? If they don't then it looks like they have nothing to do with the saving, and are down to something else.

Might as well rule it out...
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Jaysen
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Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:57 pm Post

Replace your hard drive or system fan controller. Either you have a disk that is on its way out and you are getting lucky, the disk is over heating terribly (point previous but causal), or your fan controller is not properly stepping fan speed to dissipate heat. I have $$ on the drive.

We can test this pretty easy if you have a thumb drive. Move the scriv project there and set the auto save low. Still have noise then you are looking at fan.

Hmm… you're windows so maybe Lee is using more disk IO than mac does but the test should still be valid.
Jaysen

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StefanG
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Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:45 pm Post

pigfender wrote:If you set the Scriv save to 300 seconds do the noises drop off?

That's why I put up post #1: I realized that with higher settings Scrivener wouldn't autosave, unless I waited 5 minutes. It dawned on me that I had misread (in)activity. It seemed like a typo, or not related to autosave at all, but rather to its section header --Saving-- Maybe Scriv had to wait after Ctrl S, until background tasks gave it 2 seconds of inactivity. But that seemed too weird.

The old "Autosave changes after xx minutes" was a no-brainer. You knew it would save in xx minutes when you changed s.th. No guesswork, no flickering LEDs of overly busy hard drives etc.

Jaysen wrote:...disk is over heating terribly (point previous but causal), or your fan controller is not properly stepping fan speed

It could well be my notebook. Maybe I should get a Panasonic Toughbook again. It had no fan at all, and the hard drive was cushioned in silicone. That thing was not quiet, is was noise-less, totally silent. And I could type on sandy beaches, in the rain, on bumpy bus rides. But the price .....

Will try out your suggestions next week. Have to meet a deadline and will be out over the weekend.
Thanks for now

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StefanG
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:50 pm Post

Couldn't wait to try it out: New project from stick. Autosave real low, as you recommended. The noise is still there. However, the file time on the stick is not updating until I close down Scrivener. Is it buffering autosave-data somewhere else? How does it work, anyway? Incremental saving of current doc? Overwriting all files? Just the current rtf?

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robertdguthrie
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:48 pm Post

In my experience, I've only see Scrivener autosave the individual files that I've changed, which varies depending on what I'm doing: change the title of a document, and the binder's xml file changes. Just add words to the document, and that rtf is what is changed. Same with the Notes or synopsis text; only those files are saved. As I understand it, when you close or open a scrivener project, one or more files do get saved or deleted, but I'm not sure which ones.

When you say the file access time doesn't change, are you talking about the Project.scrivx file, or are you monitoring & refreshing the view of the docs/ directory?
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StefanG
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Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:55 pm Post

the individual docs; to make sure my file manager updates, I also change other files (with a plain text editor), the timestamps of these files are updated immediately.

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Jaysen
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:51 am Post

wait. you're windows. writes to thumb (those cheap ssd drives) are buffered to disk then background written to device. Effectively making no difference to you. if you had a real external drive you could try that.

what kind of sound are you getting? is it just fan noise or is it grinding (metal screeching)?
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StefanG
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:22 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:is it just fan noise or is it grinding (metal screeching)?

Both. But let me repeat that it also happens with other software at frequent autosave settings. It's just that other software offers me better control over how often I want to save.

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Jaysen
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:05 am Post

What if you watch a vid off the hard drive?

Or you could try running ckdisk to exercise the drive a tad. I think the association with autosave is coincidental to a larger hardware issue. Please make sure you are doing regular backups of all your critical data.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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AmberV
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:23 am Post

Also de-frag if you haven't done that in a while. Scrivener is a bit more IO intensive than many programs, because it distributes data into many small files. This is part of what keeps it robust in a larger scale. One can have hundreds of megabytes, even gigabytes of data in their projects and auto-save, open, and shutdown will all remain very efficient and fast. But that kind of distribution also means more files are opening and closing on your drive, just even by clicking around the outline.

I have not noticed any fan problems on my underpowered netbook, which is taxed by Scrivener in general, with auto-save at the default frequency. I don't think the problem is in root there, though of course auto-save frequency might be exacerbating some other problem. In fact, I get more fan activity with Word than I do with Scrivener.
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almansur
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Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:59 am Post

Jaysen wrote:wait. you're windows. writes to thumb (those cheap ssd drives) are buffered to disk then background written to device.

That makes no sense.
This is not true on my Windows XP laptop. I tried it. Twice. Copying beaucoup MBs from an external eSata drive to a USB Flash drive shows no change in the laptop's HD LED. Copying from the laptop's HD to a USB Flash drive shows rhythmic blinking in sync with the USB Flash drive's LED. So no buffering to disk before writing to a USB Flash drive. Just reads and writes buffered through main memory by the copy process like any other copy.
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Jaysen
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Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:45 am Post

Right. When you exceed the buffer space it must be flushed.

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Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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