Spellcheck oddity with the text: "straight and narrow"

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auxbuss
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Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:18 pm Post

Something just occurred in my script after updating to Mojave. It's not a Scrivener bug alone on my machine.

The text straight and narrow causes a spellcheck error on the word straight.

First, it would be good to know if this my own personal poltergeist. And second, if so, what might be its cause. Otherwise, enjoy!

Screenshot 2018-09-25 at 17.06.44.png
Screenshot 2018-09-25 at 17.06.44.png (41.24 KiB) Viewed 5764 times


Here's the text, so that can play along at home:
straight and narrow.
straight and marrow.
straight and not narrow.
Straight and narrow.
Straight and marrow.
Straight and not narrow.
The straight and narrow.
The straight and marrow.
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auxbuss
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Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:52 pm Post

So, a little more on this. It appears that Mojave is grammar-checking even though I have no grammar-checking settings active.

Edit: If I switch off Check spelling while typing (cmd+\), then all the red underlines disappear. As soon as switch it back on, they reappear. I don't seem to be able to have spell-checking while typing without grammar-checking :shock:
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KB
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 am Post

Yep, this is a lovely new "feature" of Mojave, grr.
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auxbuss
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:02 am Post

<head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk> <head desk>

I expect they'll have to revert that, because it's going to annoy almost every writer on the planet.

The suggested "fix" for the egregious "straight and narrow" is the obviously perfect "strait and narrow". And now we can't switch off this nonsense :shock:

Still, at least Apple don't yet play a sound to bring your attention to their idea of a grammar error. Perhaps next update!
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:11 am Post

I think Apple’s idea was to warn people of very common mistakes in grammar. Most of the cases I’ve seen are there/their, you’re/your, to/too type things—and you could even argue that kind of stuff is borderline spelling vs grammar. However I don’t think I’ve encountered a single case where the engine was right! I have no idea what it thinks you should have typed here instead of “straight”.

It is definitely separate from grammar checking, as a feature. That uses a green underscore instead of red, and will highlight quite a bit more than (“Did you mean ‘then’?”) the odd frequently misspelled word. And I actually wouldn’t really mind it too (to, Apple, surely) much, because while I of course know all of the right words to use, I still often spill out the wrong one while typing fast, and it is the kind of thing that the mind glazes over when doing a quick proofread, for the same reasons. But, it needs to have a level of accuracy greater than what I’ve seen (roughly 0%) to be of use!

Well, one more reason to leave spell checking while typing off, I suppose. :lol:
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auxbuss
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:33 am Post

There’s nothing wrong with grammar checking per se, of course, but what’s happened here is a mess. The absence of different colours to show intent makes it a time-waster, because the user has to establish whether each item is an error or a suggestion. Or, as in the case I gave, lunacy.

It's also created context switches, which are particularly damaging to productivity – and well-being for some people.

Apple's decision is, I suggest, less of an issue for non-fiction writing, but for fiction, and especially poetry, it’s created a hurdle.

This could become a serious issue, because it creates friction in the process, which means users will start looking around for solutions.
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:50 am Post

Or worse, I wonder if we’ll see an actual uptick in mistakes on these types of words, since people often have a latent trust in the system if they are unsure of themselves. Surely it wouldn’t have flagged the word as inappropriate without good cause, right? So maybe I’m wrong and the computer is correct in its assessment that I should have typed, “…is their a checkbox…”.
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KB
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:34 pm Post

If anyone has any more examples of this lunacy - occurrences of red underlines for erroneous suggestions rather than outright spelling mistakes - please list them here, and I'll send them to Apple in a bug report. This is a crazy decision given how poorly it works.
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:15 pm Post

I wonder if this particular oddity has been generated because of the presumed etymology (on which Collins and American Heritage agree).

Word origin of 'straight and narrow'
perhaps an alteration of strait and narrow, an allusion to Matthew 7:14: 'strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life'

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... and-narrow



[Alteration (by misunderstanding) of strait and narrow, from "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life" (Matthew 7:14) from STRAIT.]

https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.ht ... submit.y=0
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:17 pm Post

Ode to Applese

Its colour-coding failed.
Its nonsense went on.
Its excruciating lameness.
Its tentacles long.

You the picture get. <-- This is actually okay in Applese.

In case it's not clear, those four lines above all "fail" spellcheck on its.

Here's another: judging by their cleanliness, didn’t appear to have experienced much work.
Dislikes Their .

The bulb hung at the end of a length of wire high above and swayed gently to and fro beside a slowly rotating fan.
The suggestion is to change to to too.

“It's open to all. It’s your home too, Scarlet.”
The reverse of the previous. The suggestion is to change too to to.

This one is odd:. They could ask you where your mum lives. It's fine unless it's put in quotes: "They could ask you where your mum lives."
Dislikes your.

An historian drinks tea.
Dislikes an.

Him and his small crew of sailors.
Dislikes of.

Yet every tale that told of a fisherwoman ended in tragedy
Dislikes of.

It's one thing to be marking errors incorrectly, but perhaps worse to provide suggestions that are woefully wrong and accept them.
Last edited by auxbuss on Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:34 pm Post

scshrugged wrote:I wonder if this particular oddity has been generated because of the presumed etymology (on which Collins and American Heritage agree).

In British English to keep on the straight and narrow is a common idiom. Indeed, from macOS's Oxford dictionary:
the straight and narrow
the honest and morally acceptable way of living: he's making a real effort to get back on the straight and narrow. [a misinterpretation of Matt. 7:14, ‘Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it’.]

Anyway, it's not for Apple to clean up the idiosyncrasies of the English language, even if they can afford to, which they can :D

Also, the non idiomatic case fails too: The road went on for miles, straight and narrow.
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:25 pm Post

scshrugged wrote:I wonder if this particular oddity has been generated because of the presumed etymology (on which Collins and American Heritage agree).

Word origin of 'straight and narrow'
perhaps an alteration of strait and narrow, an allusion to Matthew 7:14: 'strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life'

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... and-narrow


[Alteration (by misunderstanding) of strait and narrow, from "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life" (Matthew 7:14) from STRAIT.]

https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.ht ... submit.y=0



And just to tag on (since I googled it too :lol:)

The earliest definitive documentation that I can find comes from a few years later, in The Critical Works of Monsieur Rapin, 1706:

       "The soul of the common people seems too straight and narrow to be wrought upon by any Part of Eloquence."

This version of the phrase is old enough and close enough in date to the earliest example of 'strait and narrow' that I can find in print as to match it in status. That example is in A Vindication of the Government in Scotland: During the Reign of King Charles II, 1712:

      "Strait and narrow is the way that leadeth unto life."

'Straight and narrow' is now the more common spelling and you will be in good company if you opt to use it, even though 'strait and narrow' might be a better choice if you want to get high marks in that English language test.


https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/str ... arrow.html

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Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:28 pm Post

I suspect the Apple grammar intern who coded this figures it should be a compound adjective, as in straight-and-narrow path, which is correct. But "keeping on the straight and narrow" is no more an adjective than is keep your stick on the ice.

Must remember to turn off the grammar helper system-wide when I upgrade to Mojave.

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Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:38 pm Post

I've added a lot more examples to the post above of occurrences of red underlines for erroneous suggestions.
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Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:02 pm Post

Thanks, I've reported this to Apple as bug ID #44807047 and included the examples. (Safari underlined a word in my bug report as wrong when it wasn't too - "This looks unprofessional in a for-sale writing app" - "a" was underlined, gah!)
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