crash at startup on El Capitan 10.11 Beta (15A263e)

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KB
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:59 pm Post

I'm not really sure what you mean by "as use of this current version is simply nonexistent". The next paid upgrade is a long way off, though.

Could you please post your full crash log? Also, try resetting your preferences (navigate to ~/Library/Preferences and delete all files that begin "com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2...").
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Salakatika
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:45 pm Post

@KB:

1. Scrivener does not run in safe mode. I did this both before and after trying some of your later steps (I'll get to those), and I've uploaded a crash log from trying to run it in safe mode here.

2. This step is a daunting one since there are quite a few processes running on my user account that don't run in the test account where Scrivener works fine. Since I can't run them side-by-side I'll take screenshots, save them onto my iPad and then work on this step.

3. ~/Library/LaunchAgents contains some files relating to CleanMyMac (which I only installed to follow your later suggestion, which I'll get to. Before this, it was empty. /System/Library/LaunchAgents and /System/Library/LaunchDaemons are almost entirely comprised of com.apple.etc.etc.plist files, and then a few important-looking plist files like shell, ssh, ftp, etc.

4. Only DivX, Flash Player, Flip4Mac and Java.

5. Earlier in this thread I completely nuked my login items, and now all that remains are apps like Flux, Dropbox, Cloak and Radium. Disabling these has no effect.

6. This was the very first thing I did, since it resolved a crash in an earlier El Capitan PB. No change.

7. I downloaded this software and let it do its thing after trying safe mode in step 1. I also used a similar app called MainMenu Pro to clear all user caches and the system cache. I also used CleanMyMac to completely remove any traces of Scrivener from my machine (which I've also done manually.) I rebooted. After all this fiddling around, Scrivener started up but was really buggy - it wouldn't open any existing projects, but it did run a test project I created and I was able to edit it fine. I rejoiced a bit until I found existing projects wouldn't open. Then I noticed there was a prompt asking to check for updates that had been placed in the background. When I clicked yes, it crashed.

8. Yes.

8.5. I did some googling and this appears to have been installed as part of the app GeekTool. I uninstalled it and also removed Menu Extra Enabler. No change. /Library/InputManagers (and its counterpart in my user folder) is empty, as is ~/Library/Contextual Menu Items/.

I'm the most stubborn person in the world and determined to find a solution to this problem - for my part, it's still just an inconvenience since I can run Scrivener on my Boot Camp partition through VMware (though I will eventually have to buy it), and haven't been writing much lately. But since I'm not the only person with this problem, I'd really like to find a solution that doesn't involve nuking everything and starting over.

I only brought up blaming me because I get that by installing a beta OS (though I have done so without issue many times before), I was asking for trouble. Yes, it is my fault and I deserve blame. It's *likely* that this is why Scrivener is crashing. But I also think it's possible that I could've gone from Yosemite to the public release of El Capitan and still had this problem. And dwelling on the fact that it's my fault doesn't fix the problem or help anyone. I get it - let's focus on the problem, not on my poor decision-making.

I'd love to try a beta release or something since beta testing happens to be one of the things I do and have done for years (with software, computer games, etc.), long before the era of public betas and "early access" games. If this crash persists in a later version of Scrivener, it won't just be a major problem for me - it'll be a problem for other people as well. I'd really like to figure this out so that it doesn't end up being that way. I've used Scrivener since 2008 and as much as I adore it, I don't want myself or others to have to nuke everything and reinstall just to get it to work.
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Br
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:27 pm Post

Running the GM on two Macs and Scrivener works fine on both.

I guess that being an archangel has its plus points. :shock: :lol: :D :P :wink:
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KB
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:24 pm Post

I don't think a beta is going to help as nothing fundamental has changed, although I may upload one soon.

In the meantime, step (2) is probably going to be the most promising.

The crash you had when in safe mode is different and odd. It suggests that, in setting up the default formatting presets, Scrivener crashed while accessing fonts. This shouldn't be possible given that the default fonts it sets up are the default system ones, so one thing might be to look at Font Manager and see if you have any font issues on your main user account.

The crash you link to in step (7) isn't even in Scrivener's code, but what I assume is Sparkle's (the automatic update framework we use).

All of the crashes are of the same type - something that was expected gone from memory - but all are in different areas, from seemingly random parts of the code - and none so far directly related to Scrivener's code (which isn't to say it can't be indirectly related). Which is consistent with something causing problems in the background somehow, I suppose...

Anyway, let me know how you get on with step (2). Sorry it's a pain, but it's the only thing I can think of to narrow it down given everything else tried. Thanks for your perseverance!
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Salakatika
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:35 pm Post

I've had all user fonts disabled for the time being and have since I started having problems - I don't have many. What else could I look at?

I'll let you know, and it's not a pain at all, just going to take a fair bit of time. I'll try to see what I can figure out in a few hours and post again with the results.

A beta might help, who knows. I'll let you know if messing with processes leads to anything or not.
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Br
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:15 pm Post

Would this help?

Given that a new user account works and even Safe Mode doesn't, you may need to delete the Scrivener container folder. If you'd like to try that, press shift+cmd+G from Finder and copy in the following:
~/Library/Containers/
You're looking for the Scrivener container (possibly com.literatureandlatte.Scrivener) located there. Deleting it will force scrivener to rebuild it (as it does for a new user).

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/16007#49227




Legacy software using Java 6?

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US

https://oliverdowling.com.au/2014/03/28 ... -mac-os-x/

http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/app ... 1.1890762/
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:59 pm Post

Briar Kit wrote:Would this help?

Given that a new user account works and even Safe Mode doesn't, you may need to delete the Scrivener container folder. If you'd like to try that, press shift+cmd+G from Finder and copy in the following:
~/Library/Containers/
You're looking for the Scrivener container (possibly com.literatureandlatte.Scrivener) located there. Deleting it will force scrivener to rebuild it (as it does for a new user).

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/16007#49227



The ~/Library/Containers folder is only used by Mac App Store apps. Its all very silly, in that a MAS app cannot automatically access (without the user choosing from a panel) the ~/Documents, ~/Downloads folders and so on, so has to use ~/Library/Containers/com.company.app/Data/Documents and so on. But there'll be no Scrivener folders in there for anyone not using the MAS version, and if you are using the MAS version, I would *strongly* recommend against deleting the folders in there unless you know for sure you haven't saved any documents there.



This could be affecting third-party software, so is perhaps worth trying, although Scrivener itself doesn't rely on Apple's Java install in any way.
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Salakatika
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:31 am Post

Alright, I systematically went through processes in Activity Monitor, compared them to the processes active on the working account, and nuked the ones that weren't present. There were quite a few processes present that were user-specific, but the system/root processes were virtually identical. It didn't take as long as I expected it would.

In any case, I basically got it to the point where the processes running on my main user account were the same as the ones on the test account, system processes included. No change in Scrivener behaviour - I tested it several times throughout this procedure and it still crashed on startup as usual. This is the crash log from before I started deleting processes and this is the log from the last one before I rebooted.

I'm determined to figure this one out, but not sure where to go from here.
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F451
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:48 am Post

KB wrote:I'm not really sure what you mean by "as use of this current version is simply nonexistent". The next paid upgrade is a long way off, though.

Could you please post your full crash log? Also, try resetting your preferences (navigate to ~/Library/Preferences and delete all files that begin "com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2...").


Nonexistent as in unusable. I'm done. Scrivener beta development ceased for Mac over a year ago. Apple's new public beta program is not going away—if anything—it will become more prevalent in the future. I'm looking for developer like AgileBits who develops multi-platform, but stays on top of things. It was fun while it lasted.

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:16 am Post

KB wrote:The ~/Library/Containers folder is only used by Mac App Store apps. Its all very silly, in that a MAS app cannot automatically access (without the user choosing from a panel) the ~/Documents, ~/Downloads folders and so on, so has to use ~/Library/Containers/com.company.app/Data/Documents and so on. But there'll be no Scrivener folders in there for anyone not using the MAS version, and if you are using the MAS version, I would *strongly* recommend against deleting the folders in there unless you know for sure you haven't saved any documents there.


If a user were having probs and they had bought from the MAS (and they were sure about not having files in there), would deleting the container be likely to help, or a completely specious idea?


KB wrote:This could be affecting third-party software, so is perhaps worth trying, although Scrivener itself doesn't rely on Apple's Java install in any way.


Understood. If Scrivener works for some users (most, I suspect, given that this thread isn't awash with people having probs), and if it works for some people in new-user accounts but not in their main user accounts, then the problem (logically?) is coming from another piece of software, even if Scrivener doesn't rely on that software anyway. Yes? Or the problem can only exist if Scrivener does rely on the conflicting software in some way? :?

I was gifted a very old black MacBook, mainly because the former owner was having problems with it. I did just two things: uninstalled Office 2008 and uninstalled Flash. Three years later, the machine still runs sprightly. For whatever reason, even if Office and Flash weren't actually running and active, they were causing the machine to drag. Worst of all was trying to use Safari with Flash enabled: constant hangs and crashes.

F451 wrote:Nonexistent as in unusable. I'm done. Scrivener beta development ceased for Mac over a year ago. Apple's new public beta program is not going away—if anything—it will become more prevalent in the future. I'm looking for developer like AgileBits who develops multi-platform, but stays on top of things. It was fun while it lasted.


Given that you have got Scrivener's founder and OS X developer trying to help you in person; and given that he has stated that an El Cap version of Scrivener is imminent; and given that Scrivener does work in El Cap (though not on your particular machine for reasons that appear to be beyond the developer's control [yet he is trying to help you]); your post doesn't appear to correlate with known facts.

Why not let the dev help you so that you benefit, along with other people having similar issues? :roll:
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KB
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:00 am Post

F451 wrote:
KB wrote:I'm not really sure what you mean by "as use of this current version is simply nonexistent". The next paid upgrade is a long way off, though.

Could you please post your full crash log? Also, try resetting your preferences (navigate to ~/Library/Preferences and delete all files that begin "com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2...").


Nonexistent as in unusable. I'm done. Scrivener beta development ceased for Mac over a year ago. Apple's new public beta program is not going away—if anything—it will become more prevalent in the future. I'm looking for developer like AgileBits who develops multi-platform, but stays on top of things. It was fun while it lasted.


I have literally no idea what you are talking about. Scrivener has been in constant development, and we are on top of things, with a new version ready to go before release. If you choose to use beta OSes, that's up to you. The whole point of an OS beta is to give developers time to get their software compatible before release, and the point of a public beta is so that users can report bugs to Apple and third parties, helping bugs get fixed before the official release. All of which we have been on top of. It sounds as though you shouldn't be using a beta OS.
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:03 am Post

Salakatika wrote:Alright, I systematically went through processes in Activity Monitor, compared them to the processes active on the working account, and nuked the ones that weren't present. There were quite a few processes present that were user-specific, but the system/root processes were virtually identical. It didn't take as long as I expected it would.

In any case, I basically got it to the point where the processes running on my main user account were the same as the ones on the test account, system processes included. No change in Scrivener behaviour - I tested it several times throughout this procedure and it still crashed on startup as usual. This is the crash log from before I started deleting processes and this is the log from the last one before I rebooted.

I'm determined to figure this one out, but not sure where to go from here.


Thanks for going through all of that! I'm going to put up a public beta of 2.7 later today, but I doubt it will make much difference. I am going to update some of the third-party components, though, so it will be interesting to see if they have any effect. Could you please drop us a line at mac.support AT literatureandlatte.com, too, marked for the attention of myself? That's just so I have your email address so that I can send you extra test builds if necessary. We'll keep the discussion here unless I need to send you anything for testing, though, so don't be offended if I don't respond to the support email. I would just be grateful for your email address in case I have a brainwave about any components that could be removed for testing purposes to see if they have an effect.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:07 am Post

Briar Kit wrote:If a user were having probs and they had bought from the MAS (and they were sure about not having files in there), would deleting the container be likely to help, or a completely specious idea?


It depends on the user. But there's a good chance the user could nuke all of their backups if they did that, since the default backup folder for MAS users will be in ~/Library/Containers/com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2/Data/Library/Application Support/Scrivener (or something like that). So I'd never recommend it without being very careful about what the folder contains.

Briar Kit wrote:Understood. If Scrivener works for some users (most, I suspect, given that this thread isn't awash with people having probs), and if it works for some people in new-user accounts but not in their main user accounts, then the problem (logically?) is coming from another piece of software, even if Scrivener doesn't rely on that software anyway.


This would seem to be the case, yes. Or, it could be a problem with the system frameworks that has arisen during updates in code that not many apps use, I suppose, but that seems less likely given that it works on other user accounts.
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:47 am Post

No problem, KB - email sent.
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:20 pm Post

Thanks!

I've uploaded a new beta here:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11692&start=0

I doubt this will make much difference to you. I have updated the Sparkle (automatic updater) framework in it, as the one that was built in wasn't compatible with El Capitan, but that wasn't causing crashes for anyone else so I don't think that will be the cause of your problems.
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