Mac Preferences keyboard shortcuts vs Scrivener keyboard shortcuts

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AmberV
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Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:21 am Post

The revamped screenshot tools work well, and speed and stability have been increasingly impressive: better than High Sierra.


The integration of Markup with screenshots is pretty nice. I’ve noticed you’ve been getting good use out of that! That was a long time overdue and it’s good to see these two mechanisms come together finally. My main grumble with how screenshots work now is that the file doesn’t get written to the disk until you ignore the thumbnail in the corner of the screen for a while. I’m used to just immediately opening the most recent screenshot file in my image editor—and now I have to wait. I’ve found myself tending toward using the clipboard instead of files. At least that goes right to the clipboard immediately.

Dark Mode is fun, and I think I will like it more as time goes by and more tools that would work well in it adopt it. Right now I barely see it because I make very seldom use of Apple’s software, and much of what I do use from third-party developers is either still in beta or otherwise hasn’t yet addressed Dark Mode at all. So it’s a very spotty experience right now. And of course as a daily and constant Scrivener user, until that UI is done for that, 99% of what I see of Dark Mode will be the menu bar—and I’ve been using the dark menu bar option ever since they introduced it. So nothing new there. :)

That all aside, my chief complaint with 10.14, and what will keep me from adopting the system fully until Apple gets past the teething problems with it, is the excessive granting of permissions. I make heavy use of tools that cooperate with other tools. Text expanders, macro software, device input augmentation, hand-coded scripts, command-line tools that interface with the GUI layer, etc. The level of harassment I got from just one of those tools was over the top comedic in how awful it was—it was beyond even a parody of how bad Windows was when it was at its worst in this regard. I was clicking “OK” buttons in probably close to a hundred dialogue boxes while the system was still booting up for the first time! They were stacked so thickly on the screen that the accumulated dropshadow was so black I might as well have already been in Dark Mode.

I still can’t get everything working properly (though that may be beta problems), like unzipping a file using a third-party launcher with a third-party compression tool. I’m sure somewhere I was supposed to authorise LaunchBar to System Events and System Events to Keka and Keka to Finder to get what should be a simple task of unzipping a file done… but it seems that whatever mechanism is being used, it doesn’t trigger the usual flurry of dialogue boxes and just silently fails instead. It’s not just power user stuff either. Compile PDF from Scrivener to Skim and it will throw a permissions error, because I guess having your default PDF reader load a PDF is unsafe now. I even got an error from an AppleScript trying to do what AppleScript does.

I sincerely wish there was an, “Apple, stay out of it and let me use my computer like a computer” checkbox somewhere that switched that whole level of security theatre off for good. I’d even be satisified with it being hidden, goodness knows I already have a huge checklist of hidden preferences and system daemons I shut down, that I work through on a clean install; what’s one more?

So yeah, for me I’ll be sticking to my usual policy of waiting about a year to install the latest OS, in the hope that some of that simmers down in response to negative feedback.

But to stray back on topic, the shortcuts thing has turned out to be a pretty weird problem. Haven’t figured it out yet, but somehow macOS has its wires crossed over the definition of “Scrivener”, so the shortcuts don’t end up being assigned where they should. Not your usual problem for sure.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

er
eric1954
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Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:04 pm Post

Hey JoRo,

You're right, Ioa knows his stuff. We jumped through a bunch of hoops trying to bottle the ghost in the machine.

In the end it was (of course) Apple's fault. Turns out the Mac Preferences wouldn't purge Scrivener 2, even if all traces of it were deep cleaned using Onyx "Maintenance".

Instead, in the Mac Preferences, the v2 icon still showed. So I deleted Scrivener (the app in the shortcuts list, not just the shortcuts). Then a Restart. This time, the v3 icon showed in the Application list. I rebuilt the shortcuts and they now work.

Ioa mentioned that the new Styles method doesn't allow inclusion of a character (such as a bullet) in the style, In v2, styles could be a text and format mashup. With the new Styles, it's formats only. So my much-loved bullet shortcut will have to be a two-step process: Opt-8 for the bullet and the indented paragraph format on a shortcut.

Thanks for the help. It's been a mission.

eric

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JoRo
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:34 am Post

Hi eric

Very obscure. Haven't heard of anyone else having the same issue. Glad you and Ioa managed to find a solution. Sorry if I wasted any of your time with ineffective ideas.

Slàinte mhòr.
Last edited by JoRo on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JoRo
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:54 am Post

AmberV wrote:The integration of Markup with screenshots is pretty nice. I’ve noticed you’ve been getting good use out of that!
[…]
My main grumble with how screenshots work now is that the file doesn’t get written to the disk until you ignore the thumbnail in the corner of the screen for a while.
[…]
But to stray back on topic, the shortcuts thing has turned out to be a pretty weird problem.
[…]


I use macOS coloured in a delicate hue of vanilla. I don't have the power needs you have, so I haven't run into a permissions logjam – thankfully. I had to work on a MPB running High Sierra last night for an hour or so, and I found myself missing Mojave's overall look and feel. I do like Stacks – forgot to mention them originally.

1. I feel severely chastised…though a screenshot can say so much. [smile]

2. Maybe I have misunderstood, but the thumbnail wait can be turned off using CMD SHIFT 5 > Options > Show Floating Thumbnail [remove the tick]. Pretty sure you already know this and that I have misread your post several times.

3. Thanks for helping to resolve this issue – I was hoping you or Keith would see the thread and respond. Appears to have been a very specific glitch, given that other users haven't seemingly run into the same brick wall, at least not on the forums.

Here's a screenshot for you. I be brave. ;)

Show Floating Thumbnail.jpg
Show Floating Thumbnail.jpg (152.59 KiB) Viewed 2907 times


Slàinte mhòr.

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AmberV
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:32 am Post

Here is another thread that seems to be describing the same problem. It looks like the way System Preferences works is by the name of the software alone, rather than the internal ID, so depending on how you transition to v3 it can end up getting confused (in this case, it was writing shortcuts to both the v2 and v3 plist files, even if v2 wasn’t installed—it was creating a new v2 plist file with just the shortcuts stored in it!). I’ve never run into it myself because I only keep the latest version as “Scrivener”, and keep older copies around as “Scrivener-29” or whatever.

As for the screenshot thumbnail, the main problem with that option is that turning off the thumbnail opts out of Markup integration as best I can tell. What would be nice is if that mechanism wrote to the disk as well as showing the thumbnail so that you could have both options available. I guess the problem is that Markup was always something that operated on a virtual copy of the image in memory rather than directly to the disk. Seeing as how it got started off as a way of editing images embedded in other views (like Mail), it makes sense.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

Jo
JoRo
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:42 pm Post

AmberV wrote:Here is another thread that seems to be describing the same problem.

As for the screenshot thumbnail, the main problem with that option is that turning off the thumbnail opts out of Markup integration as best I can tell.


Ah, the litany of my misdemeanours grows. How did I miss that thread? Though I wasn't too far off in my first post when I asked: "Do you still have Scrivener 2 installed on your Mac, as well as Scrivener 3?"

Clicking to open and markup / edit in Preview or another app, if necessary, not suitable?

Slàinte mhòr.

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AmberV
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Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:57 pm Post

Ha, hardly! Thanks for all your help with this and everywhere else.

Clicking to open and markup / edit in Preview or another app, if necessary, not suitable?


That’s possible sure, but not too different from just loading it into a graphics editor at that point. The way I have things set up, Hazel loads new files with “Screenshot” in the name when they land in the screenshot folder, so I don’t really have to do much. :)
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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JoRo
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Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:08 pm Post

So, the next time L&L posts a call for people to join the tech-support team, I can still apply? :P

And on a serious note, if someone wants to blog or write a how-to book about Scrivener, do they have to get formal permission to use screenshots?

What does Hazel then do with the screenshots? Files them only or triggers an editing app? Most screenshots I use have short lives on my Mac. They get used in posts or emails or messaging apps and then binned.

Slàinte mhòr.

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AmberV
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Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:43 pm Post

As they say in the midwest, ya y’betcha!

And on a serious note, if someone wants to blog or write a how-to book about Scrivener, do they have to get formal permission to use screenshots?


I’m pretty sure that all falls under fair use / right to quote / etc. A good place to check for stuff like that are the policy guidelines for web pages that archive vast quantities of such things, like Wikipedia. Well, we certainly don’t have a problem with the publicity at any rate.

What does Hazel then do with the screenshots?


They get saved into a folder that Hazel generally keeps cleaned out. I have a simple rule that basically asks whether a file has been seen yet, and if so if it has been modified in the past three hours. If it’s older than that, it gets dumped—unless it is a .scriv with a user.lock file still in it. There are other useful functions I have attached to these “disposable file” folders—like uploading the saved screenshot to the LnL web server and putting the uploaded URL onto the clipboard so I can paste it into the post that I’m drafting while all of that is going on. Lots of stuff!

Needless to say, I love Hazel. :D
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

Jo
JoRo
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Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:00 am Post

Thanks for all of the above.

If I did produce a book, I think I would seek permission from Keith: to cover my back and to be polite. But I am a long way from that. Just a nascent idea at the moment.

Must remember to look at Hazel...so many apps clamouring for attention.

In my head, I pronounce your name as a Brit would say Iowa, but dropping the soft 'w' sound in the middle. Is that right?

Slàinte mhòr.

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AmberV
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Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:46 am Post

Just "eye oh", the 'a' is silent. Around where I live though, everyone says it "ee oh ah", which I kind of like!
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

Jo
JoRo
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Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:04 am Post

Blame A. A. Milne.

Blame Christopher Robin.

Blame Winnie-the-Pooh.

Blame Piglet, Kanga, Tigger, and Roo.

Blame me for being a Brit and being hounded by that wretched bear at every cultural turn.

But when I first saw "eye oh", I thought Eeyore, and now I can't get that thought out of my head. (Not mocking your name. Just how the synapses fired on first sight.)


But seriously, I would never have guessed the correct pronunciation. Why a silent "a"? Where does your name originate from? You mean that the Spanish say "ee oh ah"? Love Spain. Only been a couple of times. What led you from Portland to Santiago de Compostela?

Slàinte mhòr.

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AmberV
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Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:20 pm Post

I blame Christopher Robin for a great many things!

To answer in order: to be ornery and confuse both computers and humans alike, from a fancy of the imagination, and yes, that is how the vowels read to them, but all run together like a single extended triphthong. And lastly, mainly family, but now that I’m here I love it! And ten thousand years of history aside, there are interesting similarities to where I once lived; it hasn’t been a difficult transition in terms of culture.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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de
derick
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Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:59 am Post

I’ll be sticking to my usual policy of waiting about a year to install the latest OS


@AmberV am curious if you have updated and if you are encountering any issues with automation so far. Thinking of taking the plunge myself....

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AmberV
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Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:35 am Post

I’m still using 10.12.6 for my main stable working environment. Apple has improved things on the automation front though. My earlier description was from betas over the summer, and it could have been a combination of bad policies by Apple, and/or a lack of compatibility with better mechanisms that automation developers needed to adopt.

Either way, the end result is that when I finally did a full 14.0 update to the testing Mac, setting up my tools didn’t take too much effort. Often just need to drop the program into the Accessibility list, in Security & Privacy, or check it off if it is already there. I think with Typinator and Keyboard Maestro, the two big heavy hitters on my system, all I needed to do was have them listed in Accessibility.

That isn’t to say there are no dumb, overly protective things left, there are, and some programs still require advanced tweaks and such in order to fully function. You still see over the top stuff like the permission request to use the feature that opens the compiled document for you automatically.

I’ll probably skip over 10.13 entirely and go straight to 10.14 later this year on the main system, once it’s up to .4 or .5. But given the stability of the 10.14.3 system, I’d say it’s safe to jump into it at this point. They seem to have cleaned out the worst of the performance & stability problems.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles