annotation format--what did I do?

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KB
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Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:13 pm Post

Unfortunately not. When you change the colour of an annotation, the new colour gets saved in the defaults and will be used as the colour for future annotations until you change it again. So if the current annotation colour gets changed to black, then it will be saved in the defaults as black. Renaming a project will disconnect it from the preferences and cause it to use the default colour again (red). However, that is intended behaviour - it doesn't explain why annotations that were previously red are now suddenly turning black...

Thanks and all the best,
Keith

dp
dphaine
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:56 pm Post

Keith the core of the issue is not that existing annotations are turning black. It's not happening to me and I don't think it's what others are describing.

The issue is that after some magic moment, new annotations are turning out black. We don't know what is causing this or how to restore it other than the hacks previously mentioned. And even those are reportedly temporary.

You said, "When you change the colour of an annotation, the new colour gets saved in the defaults and will be used as the colour for future annotations until you change it again."

Ooohhh...

Sure enough, if you select an annotation and change it to red, future annotations are indeed red.

This leads to some questions:

1. Is that non-explicit behavior really the right UI for setting the annotation color? Other color choices have an explicit panel in preference to control them.

2. Many of us are stumbling across this issue inadvertently, without messing with text color. Could other operations be having a side effect of changing the default color of future annotations? Perhaps random copying and pasting mix of annotations and regular text?

I just did a test and the answer is YES. Try this to reproduce: copy a run of text that begins with an annotation (red) and ends with regular text (black). Paste it in the middle of a red annotation. From now on the annotations will be red OOPS I meant BLACK.

(Oh and btw I think the non-red part of what is pasted may be treated as an annotation despite looking black. This could cause problems downstream.)

How about having the annotation color be explicitly determined from preferences?


3. You said, "Renaming a project will disconnect it from the preferences and cause it to use the default colour again (red)"

Should renaming a file really ever change its behavior? Shouldn't all document-specific settings be encapsulated within the document and stay with it whether the file is given a better name or transported to a different computer?


Thank you and best regards,
Philip
productvision.com
Last edited by dphaine on Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KB
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:11 pm Post

Hi,

It's absolutely normal for certain settings to be saved in the preferences on OS X, and these will naturally become disconnected if you move or rename a file. Most settings are indeed document specific, but the occasional setting which is really just a preference rather than a setting is saved in the preferences file.

I don't think annotation colour should be set as a preference; I think it's quite natural for new annotations to be created using the same colour as the last annotation. Many other interface elements work like this in many apps - it just uses the last chosen setting.

As for your examples, I'm a little confused. You said:

I just did a test and the answer is YES. Try this to reproduce: copy a run of text that begins with an annotation (red) and ends with regular text (black). Paste it in the middle of a red annotation. From now on the annotations will be red.


But they should be red, shouldn't they? Or do you mean annotations were set to a different colour before this?

Obviously the problem here is that for some people annotations are changing to black somehow. But as with all bugs, I'm afraid it's virtually impossible for me to fix without being able to reproduce it and so see it for myself. As soon as I can do that, I'll have an idea about what is going on, so any further steps you can provide to reproduce it would be much appreciated.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith

dp
dphaine
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:14 am Post

For application-specific settings yes, the global prefs file is the place for that. But it's not at all normal for document-specific settings to be set in the global prefs file and associated by filename. It'd have exactly the strange consequences we're seeing: that the document would act differently by being moved or renamed. I can't see how this is ever the correct thing to do.

"I think it's quite natural for new annotations to be created using the same colour as the last annotation" It's not so natural for those of us stymied by this behavior! :-) Lots of other things in Scrivener have a global place to define colors so I find this behavior inconsistent.

Also it's true that there is precedent for most recent property change affecting future items. But in those apps you want to have lines, boxes, etc. in different shapes and colors. Do people really want annotations to be in multiple colors?

Now, as for my example you are right: I meant BLACK not red. You should be able to reproduce this issue now. Merely copying and pasting certain blocks of text will inadvertently change the default annotation color.

There may very well be other text manipulations that have the same side effect. (For example, I haven't tried dragging and dropping).

Thanks Keith. I still (heart) Scrivener.
Philip

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KB
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Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:34 am Post

Okay, I have reproduced the copy-paste thing now. It only happens if the text has the black colour associated with it (most black text has no colour associated with it; it's usually only text brought in from Word that is actually coloured black). I'll look into it.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the other stuff.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith

mr
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Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:11 pm Post

This morning I added a couple of annotations to a piece of text in the Research folder imported from a blog (originally a web archive, then converted to text using the menu item).

The annotations were red when I created them but at some point during the edit they changed to grey without me doing anything that might have triggered this apart from turning Ghost mode on then off again.

Now all new annotations in the project (not just this document) are grey.

I changed the colour of the existing annotations to red using the colour palette. However the red colour doesn't stick - the annotation remains red only until I move the cursor into the annotation, whereupon it switches back to black.This is completely reproduceable.

Happy to let you the scriv file if it might help

ah
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Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:47 pm Post

I've done a bit more experimenting to try to isolate the problem, and this is what I've concluded: the unwanted "black annotations" appear when I am using a system-wide text style selected from the ruler. If I start a completely new project and do not use that style (instead using Scrivener's default text style), annotations are red. If I start a new project and set the text to my preferred style, annotations are black and the other instabilities described above also apply.

Keith, you have mentioned that the problem may be related to text that is styled black rather than having no color applied. However, I don't know how to remove the color attribute once it's applied: there is no obvious way to do that from the Font panel (is there?). For the moment I've just recreated a new version of my preferred style, saved it to the system-wide style favorites, and it seems to work fine.

An obvious next step would be to create a new style and explicitly set the font color to black (perhaps by setting it to something else, then changing it back) and see if the problem can be reproduced. Unfortunately I'm out of time at the moment.

Andy

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KB
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Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:58 pm Post

Hi, sorry, forgot to follow this up. I recently isolated the problem and fixed it. It is caused by the underlying text having a colour associated with it (as I say, usually black text has no colour associated with it, but it is possible to have black associated with it). In the OS X text system, when you click in coloured text, it updates the colour in the colour panel (even if it's not visible), which in turn sends a "change colour" message back to the text - and in the case of an annotation, this changes the annotation colour. All a bit silly. I've fixed it by changing it so that if the change colour message tries to change the colour of an annotation to the same colour as the underlying text, it doesn't do anything (thus doesn't change the colour) - given that it's highly unlikely you would want an annotation to be the same colour as the text around it, this should be a decent solution.

This will be in 1.54.

2.0 will offer a way of removing a colour from text. Until then, the workaround is this: select the text and then Edit > Paste and Match Style in somewhere like TextEdit (or a clean Scriv doc), then paste that in to replace the original text.

Thanks and all the best,
Keith

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AndreasE
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Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:54 pm Post

I get black annotations (in 1.51) even in newly created Scrivener documents.

I do nothing special. I create a document in the binder, I open it, I write something (in Optima 12pt, which appears black), I hit Shift.Command-A to invoke an annotation, I write and get the annotation in its bubble, but not red anymore, but black.

This happens even with I quit Scrivener, restart it, create a new project and write in the first document there: the annotation remains black.

I might be wrong, but is it possible this has something to do with the upgrade to OS X 10.5.8 ? (Some time has passed since I last used the annotation feature, but I remember I've got the usual red things with the actual version.)

si
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:07 pm Post

I've got the same problem as this - my annotations are grey now and I can't seem to get them back to red. Is there a fix for this? The problem occurred when I selected a document and did Documents>Convert>Formatting to compile style. That's definitely what 'broke' it...
How to fix - I've looked at your reply above Keith and am running 1.5.4 so not sure what to do..

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KB
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:20 pm Post

Yes, it turns out 1.54 didn't quite fix all instances of this. Did you download 1.54 on the day of release or only recently? I found and fixed this, but now I can't remember if I re-uploaded 1.54 with the fix or if the fix is still waiting to be included in a 1.55 update, sorry! The only way to fix it after all the annotations have turned to grey, though, is to go through them and set them back to another colour, I'm afraid.

All the best,
Keith

si
simonholley
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:19 pm Post

Hi - I think I downloaded it on the day - can't be sure though. I don't mind going back and changing the grey ones but I'd like to somehow reset the default back to red and I can't seem to do it. I've changed an annotation colour manually to red and that doesn't fix future annotations - they still default to grey. I've renamed the project in finder and that doesn't fix it. Any other work around to reset the default annotation colour to red?
thanks
simon

si
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:42 pm Post

update - have just redowloaded 1.5.4 and it's a workaround. Now when I change the colour of an annotation it changes all future annotations to that colour. that's good enough for me! thanks
Simon

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Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:50 pm Post

Glad you got things sorted (sort of) - let me know if it happens again, though.
Thanks,
Keith