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Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:13 pm
by 06nH
Hi,

Excited to see the new Scrivener being available! However, before I upgrade, I'd like to know if Papers 3's citation functionality works in Scrivener 3. I have a few text editors where citations does not let me insert a citekey, I just want to make sure Scrivener 3 will not be one of them. Can anyone confirm this is working?

Many thanks in advance.

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:48 pm
by jonfish
Papers 3 citations does not appear to function in Scrivener 3.
This is a regression from the previous version.

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:23 pm
by 06nH
Ah, bummer. Thanks for reporting - this is good to know.

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 am
by wodecki
Hi,

L&L: when do you plan to support Papers 3 (papersapp.com) on Scrivener 3? Or, if it's already done, how to set it up?
That's very important for my writings...

Many thanks for the answer,

Andy

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:04 pm
by xiamenese
I'm a Bookends user, rather than a Papers3 user. However:

  • Have you checked in Preferences > General > Citations that Papers3 is designated as your citation manager.
  • Scrivener 3 works no differently from Scrivener 2 in respect of using citation codes rather than Cite-as-you-write, and Cmd-Y is still the shortcut in both directions.
  • I'm pretty sure that at least one of the beta-testers is a Papers3 user, and I don't remember any posts during the lengthy beta-testing period saying there was a problem with Papers3, but my memory may be at fault.

Perhaps @matsgz—who strongly supports Papers3, if memory serves—will come along to help.

Mark

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:13 pm
by pachydermfortress
I contacted Papers Support yesterday asking if there was something wrong on their end (as far as I can see, they are the ones who build the support into Magic Citations to insert citekeys into other apps), and received a less than helpful response that they will fix this in their new version.

Unfortunately their new version will be a paid, recurring subscription product [*] which is really just an unfair proposition for people who don't want to rent a bibliography manager.

[*]http://blog.readcube.com/post/165237712272/glimpse-into-the-new-readcube-papers-app

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:56 pm
by oopsowl
Magic citation and Scrivener 2 work together perfectly. I also contacted Papers yesterday and pretty much got the same response. Can I ask what other reference manager software works together with Scrivener 3, in the way that Papers does with Scrivener 2 (i.e., magic citation, not Cmd-Y way)? TIA

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:58 pm
by 06nH
pachydermfortress wrote:Unfortunately their new version will be a paid, recurring subscription product [*] which is really just an unfair proposition for people who don't want to rent a bibliography manager.


From what I understand, the new version of Papers/Readcube will not have magic citations at all and will only work with Word. I had hoped I could finish my thesis in the new Scrivener and the old Papers, but I'll wait with updating Scrivener until I have found a new reference manager.

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 pm
by kodamapixel
06nH wrote:From what I understand, the new version of Papers/Readcube will not have magic citations at all and will only work with Word.

It really is disappointing to see Papers all but abandoned since the ReadCube merger. With the lack of updates and no communication from the company, it seems the writing is on the wall for Papers.

I'm now another one looking for a new reference manager with similar citation support to Papers3/Scrivener 2 -- any suggestions?

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:14 pm
by ilottg
The problem is likely with Papers. I had the same problem with Ulysses when they went through their last upgrade. It seems Magic Citations is so complex, it needs specific information from every app it works with. Upgrades break this connection. In the past the makers of Papers would issue updates so that their app would be still usable. Not the new owners. My guess they will cripple Papers so that people move to their own ReadCube app, which only works with MS Word.
I jumped over to Bookends, which has improved a lot since I last used it in 2013. BTW, another good alternative, Sente, seems to be closing down.

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:04 am
by nontroppo
The latest version of bookends has improved its support for importing databases from Papers 3. And for those who want a magic citation interface (I've never used it so YMMV), if you use Alfred I curated a set of tools, one of which does a live author search from your database and pastes the citation: https://github.com/iandol/bookends-tools

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:23 am
by oopsowl
nontroppo wrote:The latest version of bookends has improved its support for importing databases from Papers 3. And for those who want a magic citation interface (I've never used it so YMMV), if you use Alfred I curated a set of tools, one of which does a live author search from your database and pastes the citation: https://github.com/iandol/bookends-tools


That's awesome. Will try it out right away. Thanks!

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:52 am
by cwerner
This is an issue with Papers3. You can actually make it work (temporarily) with simply adding one line that includes the new app-ID of Scrivener3 into:
/Applications/Papers.app/Contents/SharedSupport/Citations.app/Contents/Resources/AppSupportInformation.plist

There, you have:

Code: Select all

      <key>SupportsInsertionOfCitations</key>
      <array>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener</string>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2</string>


Simply adding:
<string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener3</string>



will enable it again, but Papers3 will not restart due to this modification being detected...

Sucks really.

Is there any way to make Scrivener report a fake app-ID?

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:08 am
by nontroppo
Have you tried to re-codesign the app after the modification?

Code: Select all

sudo codesign -f -s /Applications/Papers3.app

Re: Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:29 pm
by cwerner
nontroppo wrote:Have you tried to re-codesign the app after the modification?

Code: Select all

sudo codesign -f -s /Applications/Papers3.app


Oh wow, that would be cool! However, I do get:

error: The specified item could not be found in the keychain.


And I still get the error message at Papers3 startup:

The Papers Application is damaged

Please download the newest version of Papers for Mac from http://www.papersapp.com/mac, and reinstall the application.


I'm no expert in these things but I think Papers actually checks itself against some specific sha hash or something?!?