Papers 3 citations working in Scrivener 3?

06
06nH
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:12 pm Post

ilottg wrote:You can still go into the open Papers app, copy the citation in Papers format and paste it into Scrivener.

Thanks for that suggestion, however in my library (and perhaps this is not right) the citekey that I copy from papers directly (copy as > papers citation) , is not always the same as the citekey that is produced by Citations. Thereby the Citations app is a super convenient way to search, more so than the search in the Papers app itself.

I appreciate your migration to Bookends. That has been suggested by others and seems like a good idea. I am also considering that, but not right now.

pa
pachydermfortress
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:33 pm Post

06nH wrote:Thanks for that suggestion, however in my library (and perhaps this is not right) the citekey that I copy from papers directly (copy as > papers citation) , is not always the same as the citekey that is produced by Citations..


If you go to Preferences->Papers and set Drag Papers as: to Magic Citation, then the citations that you copy with e.g. CMD+C will be the same as those produced by the Citations.app. So doing a manuscript scan after exporting from Scrivener to e.g. RTF, still works.

Also scripts and automator actions sound like a great idea to get Citations working in the interim(henceforth?), thanks @barbudo.

In my ongoing support thread with Papers Support, after advising them that Readcube Desktop was not an appropriate solution, they offered me a refund for Papers. (I told them I wanted them to keep their money and make the fix, but I remain unoptimistic...)

ma
marcoiac
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:03 pm Post

I had no idea that the fix that Papers support suggested was actually originally from this forum! :D It seems to me that that's another sign that the app may be on shaky grounds, for whatever internal reasons. I used to use Sente and for many years it went well. And then it became fundamentally undeveloped and barely supported. That's when I switched to Papers. Actually before that I looked into Zotero and ReadCube, and for a very good reason. They seem to be solidly backed up and unlikely to dissolve. But admittedly Papers looked better, and better than Bookends too, for me. And that's why I decided to switch to it. I still like it, and I hope this is not the beginning of something I have already seen with Sente...

06
06nH
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:27 pm Post

pachydermfortress wrote:If you go to Preferences->Papers and set Drag Papers as: to Magic Citation, then the citations that you copy with e.g. CMD+C will be the same as those produced by the Citations.app. So doing a manuscript scan after exporting from Scrivener to e.g. RTF, still works.


Thanks - yes, that is the same as copy as, but quicker. The problem is probably another bug, as I have citekeys and citekeys. In the visible paper record, the citekey is something like perlin1985image and this is what I get when I use copy as, or CMD+C as you suggest. But when I use Citations, it comes out as something like Perlin:1985wf. The last one is actually one that is recognised in the manuscript scan, the first is not.

So, I think your solution would be workable, as long as my citekeys were properly formatted. Still, Citations is better at searching, as you can search for words in the title or authors, it does not matter.

06
06nH
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:35 pm Post

marcoiac wrote:I had no idea that the fix that Papers support suggested was actually originally from this forum! :D

Well, I think they probably knew how to do it, but it was also suggested on this forum and because of that it has probably been brought to their attention through various emails to their support person.

I agree that Papers has probably the Maciest looks, which, for a program that you use a lot does make a difference. But I wish I had not been so hung up on it. And I think it will suffer the same fate as Sente. In fact, support is already minimal to nothing and it is being phased out to be replaced by a new 'hybrid' between Papers and Readcube.

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pachydermfortress
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Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:01 pm Post

Today I received an email from Papers support saying that they were working on implementing the .plist fix, although they do not know how long it will take for that release to be pushed out.

Hopefully we'll all be back up and running soon !

ma
marcoiac
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Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 pm Post

I would not hold my breath. There is a highlighting bug they have been aware of for months, still not ironed out. Lots of other little bugs. Still usable, but the feel is that there is not much support/development for the app at the moment

ni
niwtr
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:13 am Post

cwerner wrote:This is an issue with Papers3. You can actually make it work (temporarily) with simply adding one line that includes the new app-ID of Scrivener3 into:
/Applications/Papers.app/Contents/SharedSupport/Citations.app/Contents/Resources/AppSupportInformation.plist

There, you have:

Code: Select all

      <key>SupportsInsertionOfCitations</key>
      <array>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener</string>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2</string>


Simply adding:
<string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener3</string>



will enable it again, but Papers3 will not restart due to this modification being detected...

Sucks really.

Is there any way to make Scrivener report a fake app-ID?


Just in my case, simply modify

Code: Select all

      <key>SupportsInsertionOfCitations</key>
      <array>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener</string>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2</string>

to

Code: Select all

      <key>SupportsInsertionOfCitations</key>
      <array>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener3</string>
         <string>com.literatureandlatte.scrivener2</string>

instead of adding a new line for scrivener3 works perfectly, without freezing Papers3.app or making it unable to restart.
Hope that helps :)

Additional info:
I use Papers3.app version 3.4.10.

NiwTR

06
06nH
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:51 am Post

Great that works for you. I cannot confirm this works in 3.4.12 on High Sierra however.

I can change the code, save the file and work with Papers, but upon restart it will tell me the software is damaged.

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Etherealmind
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Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:27 pm Post

I will not rent my software. This is the way of madness, there is no incentive for the developer to build and maintain the product when the rent passively arrives at their door every month.

I have deleted Papers and on the hunt for a new citation tool.

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nontroppo
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Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:37 am Post

Well Bookends has recently improved its import for Papers 3 users and is on special offer (25% off) at Winterfest (where scapple is on offer too).

http://www.sonnysoftware.com/
http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/Speci ... l#Bookends

cw
cwerner
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:10 pm Post

nontroppo wrote:Well Bookends has recently improved its import for Papers 3 users and is on special offer (25% off) at Winterfest (where scapple is on offer too).

http://www.sonnysoftware.com/
http://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/Speci ... l#Bookends


Just bought it - I'm so fed up with the Papers3 situation I get angry even when I'm not using it!

Anyways, I do miss cite-while-you-write. I see that that you have some massive workflow on GitHub using Alfred. Would it be possible to use it (or parts) with Keyboard Maestro (which I do have already)?


Cheers,
c

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nontroppo
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:54 am Post

The Alfred workflow is basically a set of Ruby and Appplescripts packaged together so most of it would be transferable to KM. But the CWYW tool, though it utilises Applescript, uses the IMO killer feature of Alfred: you can pass results back from a script to Alfred and it displays them (and allows you to run another script on the user selection). This allows one to i.e. search for an author surname, then return the results to Alfred's window, then you can trigger an action based on what the user selects (paste as a formatted ref, pandoc temp citation etc). I've never used KM, i know it is extremely powerful but not sure if you can use it to present results and select among them?

cw
cwerner
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:42 am Post

nontroppo wrote:The Alfred workflow is basically a set of Ruby and Appplescripts packaged together so most of it would be transferable to KM. But the CWYW tool, though it utilises Applescript, uses the IMO killer feature of Alfred: you can pass results back from a script to Alfred and it displays them (and allows you to run another script on the user selection). This allows one to i.e. search for an author surname, then return the results to Alfred's window, then you can trigger an action based on what the user selects (paste as a formatted ref, pandoc temp citation etc). I've never used KM, i know it is extremely powerful but not sure if you can use it to present results and select among them?


Thanks for the info. I think it should be possible, I'm pretty new to KM... My feeling is that I might want to use something like this:
https://forum.keyboardmaestro.com/t/mac ... rompt/4665
and other stuff, too...


Anyways, maybe I simply should pony up and just but the PowerPack :-)

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nontroppo
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Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:31 am Post

That KM macro should work, it would be cool if you could get this to also work in KM; though there was a complaint about the performance, and Bookends can return a lot of records which may slow it all down. The developer did say he will make this native in the next version?