Why Scrivener Doesn't Support Versions on Lion

dr
drspk
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:08 pm

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:59 am Post

I wonder - would it be possible to ring-fence the Drafts 'folder' in any project and make it accessible under Versions? That's where the writing gets down, after all. So, parts of the project could have support for Versions switched on and off *except* for the Research folder, which is typically too large...

I'm just thinking out loud here; I have insufficient technical nous to know whether this is feasible or not. I usually compile my Scrivener files and finish them in Pages, so Versions kicks in there, anyway.

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 24419
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:39 pm Post

Not really, the problem is that this technology doesn't at all work with Scrivener's mechanisms in general. If it were possible to switch it on for just one item, let alone one section, in the Binder---it would theoretically be possible to switch it on for everything.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

di
dibee
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:06 am
Platform: Linux + Windows
Location: Australia

Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:19 pm Post

tenkata wrote:As a new Scrivener user, I have been so impressed with the level of interaction between you and the other users, and the quality of feedback to make the product even better.


I'd like to add a hearty ditto. The level of customer interaction and the commitment to keeping Scrivener at a high standard is very appealing. And it inspires a level of trust and creates a community of people who just want to pass the good news on. :)

bo
bodsham
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:55 am Post

I tried versions on Pages and found it extremely confusing and also rather dangerous. It's very easy to lose track of what version you're actually dealing with in my opinion. Much easier simply to save a copy as 'Version1' or something and go back to that if needed. Or learn to use Scrivener's excellent and very powerful Snapshot facility.
Lion is crammed with so-called clever ideas that don't appear as clever in reality for me, such as resuming app windows which is another great way to discover you're working on the wrong file, especially as it will pull up a deleted or unsaved file out of nowhere without making it very obvious. I don't think Scrivener needs Versions at all. Not for me anyway.

User avatar
KB
Site Admin
Posts: 20902
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Truro, Cornwall
Contact:

Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:15 pm Post

I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Versions myself, now that I'm a few months into using Lion. It drives me batty in TextEdit especially, where my notes are often temporary, and where I often want to use Save As.
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

Mi
Mike Holbrook
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:05 pm
Platform: Mac

Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:59 pm Post

This may be off topic but I am wondering which Mac OS version is best to run Scrivener under at this point?

I have not taken the Lion plunge yet. I like some of the features but have been waiting to see what software limitations it might impose. Sounds like any Lion issues with Scrivnener have largely to do with Lion features which do not exist in earlier versions of the OS not being usable, not issues hindering the general use of the software?f

bo
bodsham
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:05 pm Post

I haven't seen any issues upgrading from SL to Lion. Full screen mode is rather nice with Scrivener too - gets everything else out of the way.

User avatar
KB
Site Admin
Posts: 20902
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Truro, Cornwall
Contact:

Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:34 pm Post

Scrivener has been updated to take full advantage of Lion, so there should be no issues. We'll be releasing a 2.2 update next week that should iron out any lingering issues, though.

All the best,
Keith
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 24419
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:39 pm Post

Mike Holbrook wrote:This may be off topic but I am wondering which Mac OS version is best to run Scrivener under at this point?


With the exception of a few special features that only work in Lion (full screen mode being the largest), I wouldn't say there is a huge difference between OS versions. That decision is going to come down more to the rest of the OS and other tools you use. If you still use any Rosetta applications then you might want to hold off as long as possible. There are still some utilities and such that are flaky in Lion. Overall though it has been a pretty stable release for me once I paired things down. My first installation was just a regular upgrade and that was a royal mess. Once I did a clean install and only selected applications for their compatibility, everything went fine.

By the way most of the Scrivener+Lion bugs you hear of can be solved by downloading the public beta. I never see any of these bugs.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

User avatar
bargonzo
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:34 am
Platform: Mac + Windows
Location: Occupy Inferno

Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:05 pm Post

KB wrote:I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Versions myself, now that I'm a few months into using Lion. It drives me batty in TextEdit especially, where my notes are often temporary, and where I often want to use Save As.


Chiming in here a bit late, I admit, but I just want to throw my vote in for NEVER implementing Versions, even if it becomes possible. (If it does, and you do, please include a method for opting out of it.)

I agree whole-heartedly with bodsham on this:

bodsham wrote:I tried versions on Pages and found it extremely confusing and also rather dangerous. It's very easy to lose track of what version you're actually dealing with in my opinion. Much easier simply to save a copy as 'Version1' or something and go back to that if needed.
Imagine this very elaborate scientific lie: that sound cannot travel through outer space. Well, but suppose it can.

Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

User avatar
nom
Posts: 1927
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:02 am
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:31 am Post

bargonzo wrote:
KB wrote:I have to admit that I'm not a fan of Versions myself, now that I'm a few months into using Lion. It drives me batty in TextEdit especially, where my notes are often temporary, and where I often want to use Save As.


Chiming in here a bit late, I admit, but I just want to throw my vote in for NEVER implementing Versions, even if it becomes possible. (If it does, and you do, please include a method for opting out of it.)

I agree whole-heartedly with bodsham on this:

bodsham wrote:I tried versions on Pages and found it extremely confusing and also rather dangerous. It's very easy to lose track of what version you're actually dealing with in my opinion. Much easier simply to save a copy as 'Version1' or something and go back to that if needed.


I have to say, I like versions. A lot. While I have only used Pages a little since the upgrade, I have used both Numbers and, especially, Keynote extensively and found versions to be very helpful (although still not very intuitive - I do miss Save As. Perhaps I'm still acculturating). A couple of times I used versions to recover individual parts of presentations that I deleted then changed my mind about a few days later.

Having said that, I'm not sure what Versions would offer Scrivener other than a kind of automated Snapshot. I trust Keith to sort it out and make a careful decision one way or the other - his track record speaks for itself. :)
Complete and utter NOMsense.
Image

User avatar
KB
Site Admin
Posts: 20902
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Truro, Cornwall
Contact:

Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:41 am Post

Actually, I think the lack of Save As is my biggest objection.

Thanks, by the way. :)
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

pe
pete340
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:45 pm

Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:07 pm Post

nom wrote:Having said that, I'm not sure what Versions would offer Scrivener other than a kind of automated Snapshot. I trust Keith to sort it out and make a careful decision one way or the other - his track record speaks for itself. :)


Well, yes, an automated Snapshot, that takes less storage space. That is, if my assumption is correct, that a Scrivener snapshot is a (more or less) full copy of the project. Versions keeps track of what changed. With that information it can reconstruct previous versions, but doesn't have to keep complete copies of everything that's gone before. So you can go back to any previous version, without having to remember to keep a copy of whatever turns out, in retrospect, to have been needed. <g>
-- Pete Image Image

User avatar
KB
Site Admin
Posts: 20902
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:23 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Truro, Cornwall
Contact:

Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:51 pm Post

Scrivener snapshots are full copies of individual text files inside the project, not of the whole project (given that you take snapshots of individual documents in the project, not of the whole project). What you have to remember, though, is that all Versions information is stored in an obscure, hidden area on your hard drive, and doesn't travel with files when you move them to other disks - so it wouldn't be a replacement for Snapshots anyway.
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

bo
bodsham
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:10 pm Post

And with Scrivener snapshots it's easily to compare versions to see what's changed. Not so with Lion Versions. All you get is a stack of backups of the same book length file which for a manuscript of any size I find unusable.