Many free commercial-quality fonts licenced by Apple in macOS Catalina!

Lo
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Fri May 29, 2020 2:29 pm Post

2012 13" MBA, 2015 15" MBP, and 2017 13" MBP: no issues with Catalina or iCloud, but I am aware of numerous reports of Catalina-related problems for other users.

Curious to know where Apple is heading. For some years – for example, when the Air and Mac Pro were left to languish and Time Capsule was put to the sword – it looked as if Apple was giving up on the Mac and macOS. Even now it looks as though macOS is coming to the end of its lifespan, with whole macOS teams at Apple being disbanded (as already pointed out by nontroppo) and the evident multi-year push towards Arm. Did they, at one time, decide to drop the Intel Mac range and macOS? Did they then find a need to revive it, or at least keep it going for a few more years?

I suspect that macOS will be put out to grass pretty soon and that Arm-based "Macs" will be with us before too long ... but will Apple be able to deliver Arm Macs that satisfy developers and the like, or will it be sufficient for them to gorge themselves on the home-user market?

Two things about that:

1. A lot of Apple's success has come from its tech-user base evangelising about Apple products. Can Apple thrive (sure, it is super rich) without that choir continuing to sing the company's praises?

2. What will become of Mac Scrivener if Arm replaces Intel and macOS withers on the vine? I can see some long-term benefits for L&L if Keith only has to develop for one core OS, but – even starting with iOS Scrivener – there will be a long way to go to match Mac Scrivener's incredibly capable box of tricks. Will we all just have to accept a simpler Scrivener that runs on Arm Macs, iPads, and iPhones (much like Ulysses or Bear do now) and syncs through iCloud?

Re the fonts: been using them for a while now ... personally like Founders Grotesk (for Scrivener) and Graphik (for email).

mb
mbbntu
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Fri May 29, 2020 3:30 pm Post

@Marc64 Not vastly different from my Dock (which presently has in it BusyCal, 2Do, Tinderbox, DEVONthink, The Archive and PDF Expert which are extra to you). No LaunchPad, because I use Alfred. I find the menu bar is quite revealing of "techieness". Mine has Typinator, Dropzone, Keyboard Maestro, Moom, Mosaic, 1Password, Bartender, Hazel, PopClip and Default Folder X. Which is too much, really. Oh, and Calendar 366 II.
You should judge people not by how close they get to the top, but by how far they have come from the bottom. Some people have a mountain to climb just to get to the place where others start out. (Me, 2010)

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Marc64
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Fri May 29, 2020 3:46 pm Post

mbbntu wrote:@Marc64 Not vastly different from my Dock (which presently has in it BusyCal, 2Do, Tinderbox, DEVONthink, The Archive and PDF Expert which are extra to you). No LaunchPad, because I use Alfred. I find the menu bar is quite revealing of "techieness". Mine has Typinator, Dropzone, Keyboard Maestro, Moom, Mosaic, 1Password, Bartender, Hazel, PopClip and Default Folder X. Which is too much, really. Oh, and Calendar 366 II.


Have just downloaded Alfred, Launchpad is no longer in the dock. ;)

Can you clarify what yo mean by 'menu bar'?
Thanks in advance for your patience with this non- techie user

Scrivener 3.1.5
Mac OSX Catalina 10.15.5
Blog: https://marcfalber.co.uk/

mb
mbbntu
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Fri May 29, 2020 3:57 pm Post

Marc64 wrote:Can you clarify what yo mean by 'menu bar'?

The strip at the top of the screen. It is where various "menulets" reside. OS ones include the clock, WiFi, and so forth. There are loads of nice utilities that can live there. If you try nothing else, I would try Pilotmoon's PopClip https://pilotmoon.com/popclip/. Very handy, in my experience.
You should judge people not by how close they get to the top, but by how far they have come from the bottom. Some people have a mountain to climb just to get to the place where others start out. (Me, 2010)

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Marc64
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Fri May 29, 2020 4:06 pm Post

mbbntu wrote:
Marc64 wrote:Can you clarify what yo mean by 'menu bar'?

The strip at the top of the screen. It is where various "menulets" reside. OS ones include the clock, WiFi, and so forth. There are loads of nice utilities that can live there. If you try nothing else, I would try Pilotmoon's PopClip https://pilotmoon.com/popclip/. Very handy, in my experience.


Ah, with you now. This is mine, not much on it.

Screenshot 2020-05-29 at 17.04.06.png
Screenshot 2020-05-29 at 17.04.06.png (37.53 KiB) Viewed 610 times


Will check out PopClip, thanks.
Thanks in advance for your patience with this non- techie user

Scrivener 3.1.5
Mac OSX Catalina 10.15.5
Blog: https://marcfalber.co.uk/

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Astaff
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Sat May 30, 2020 6:02 am Post

Yes I think this is a factor, "normal" users may still be OK on a newish machine for the most part. But developers or people who push their OS at the corners like me will hit the thousand little papercuts as macOS doesn't get the love and care it used to.


I use Catalina on 3 production machines, including running them to the limits with Apple and other pro level apps and have zero problems. AppleCare staff use Catalina in their machines, including supporting Pro-Apps without issue,

For me with experience going back to the very first Macs, Catalina has been better than some releases, no worse than others. Saying MacOS doesn’t get the care and love is rubbish - sorry.

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nontroppo
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Sat May 30, 2020 8:45 am Post

I don't want to get into an OS version war with anyone :lol: Of course your personal experience is entirely valid to you. Having used macOS since 10.3 for scientific computing and general productivity, and as someone who often gets called in to fix other peoples problems, Catalina is a culmination in a downwards slide of quality.

But it is not just me and some random moaners on reddit who have had bad luck, but an increasing number of recognised power users and long-time developers. Leaks from engineers within Apple iterate disfunction from within: management and marketing continue to push a yearly release cycle, and this does not create a healthy environment for rigorous QA.

https://mjtsai.com/blog/2019/10/16/catalina-vista/
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2019/07/23/anno ... -features/

Tsai's blog isn't a one-person shop -- he collates across a wide breadth of developers with online personas. This isn't only a Catalina issue, but a slow decline (Mossberg's 2016 column|Marco Arment in 2015). Of course, it is hard to objectively measure macOS software quality without access to the Apple bug tracker and fair reporting from engineers (you may argue the recent leaks were just from rogue staff with an axe to grind).

Lo
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Sat May 30, 2020 10:11 am Post

I agree with nontroppo, and I think that the culling of the dedicated macOS team (in 2016, or perhaps even earlier) speaks volumes about Apple’s focus.

Speaking of macOS, Gurman reports that there's no longer a dedicated team for developing the Mac's software. There's just one big software team that works across iOS and the Mac. That makes a lot of sense given the close ties between the systems that have developed in recent years -- but it also means that iOS gets the lion's share of resources. That's reasonable given the iPhone's massive importance to Apple's bottom line, but it's still bad news for those of us who like seeing continued Mac innovation.

https://www.engadget.com/2016-12-20-app ... ccounter=2


I think the Intel Mac and macOS have had their day. Apple seems to have been intending to move on for years now.

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Sat May 30, 2020 11:41 pm Post

Wild speculation and not supported by other channels within Apple.

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kewms
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Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 pm Post

FWIW, Apple announced a new Intel-based Mac Pro in February of this year, and it's a beast. Not the kind of investment I would expect to see if they were planning to abandon Intel in the short term.
https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/pdf/Mac_P ... b_2020.pdf

Katherine
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Sun May 31, 2020 6:39 am Post

kewms wrote:FWIW, Apple announced a new Intel-based Mac Pro in February of this year, and it's a beast. Not the kind of investment I would expect to see if they were planning to abandon Intel in the short term.
https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/pdf/Mac_P ... b_2020.pdf

Katherine


Exactly, and the latest Pro Apps releases are designed to take advantage Of that power. The latest i9 16” MacBook Pro outruns most desktop machines.

Not known by most of the Naysayers is that a number of the Intel processors in Macbooks are Apple only versions with thinner die, lower power etc. You only do that for a customer who is committed to large volumes of each sku.

While they may well have integrated iOS/Mac teams, that is more an indicator of the increasing power and capability of iOS, not decreasing power of MacOS.

Those who think Mac and MacOS are no longer a focus at Apple ‘watch this space’ as they say.

Yes, there may well be A series Macs shortly in addition to Intel, and again, that is not an indicator of dumbing down Mac, rather an indicator of the raw power of the latest A series processors.

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kewms
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Sun May 31, 2020 7:08 am Post

Astaff wrote:Yes, there may well be A series Macs shortly in addition to Intel, and again, that is not an indicator of dumbing down Mac, rather an indicator of the raw power of the latest A series processors.


And also the raw power of the latest Intel chips. I see the A series processors as likely to fill in the lower end of the Mac space for people who need more than a tablet but don't need (or want to pay for) a "Pro" Mac. It could easily be more cost effective to use a new generation A series rather than an older generation Intel chip in that niche. (Not to mention having a second source keeps Intel on their toes.)

Katherine
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Lo
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Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 am Post

Been a very odd wobble at Apple, not updating the Mac Pro and the Air for years and dropping the Time Capsule (gateway for many Mac products) range and the servers but then suddenly bringing the Air and Mac Pro back from the edge of the grave (none of that is speculation). I suspect they planned an earlier move from Intel but then found they needed to delay for some reason.

From Jobs onwards, there have been endless pointers that Apple wants control and comprehensive integration over its devices, and the end point of that would be using Arm across its range. If some think that is in doubt, that’s fair enough. People understand the world differently. What need to call other users’ thoughts “silly” or “wild” ... such words are just a form of shouting and suggestive that the writer is unable to engage in an open-minded manner.

Yes, Katherine, the latest updates are powerful. Do you think Apple will keep multiple OSes going for long if it does produce a low-end Arm Mac that satisfies a lot of users? Is the Intel Mac market large enough to command focus? These are genuine questions, not rhetorical attempts to inflame. I don’t know the answer to these things, and I value what you think. I can see a case where the numbers just won’t make sense for Apple to keep the Intel Macs going.

Anecdotally, I know several people who have largely transitioned to using iPads and iPhones: their iMacs and MacBooks sold or boxed up in cupboards. It feels as though change is happening. Do you perhaps see the same from your own non-Scrivener experiences? Do you see a shift in the tech support you offer for Scrivener? You have an insight I don’t have, and that insight is interesting, just as it is interesting to hear tech users like nontroppo talk about their experiences with Catalina. I welcome views shared (not shouted [by others]).

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kewms
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Sun May 31, 2020 8:52 pm Post

Login wrote:Yes, Katherine, the latest updates are powerful. Do you think Apple will keep multiple OSes going for long if it does produce a low-end Arm Mac that satisfies a lot of users? Is the Intel Mac market large enough to command focus? These are genuine questions, not rhetorical attempts to inflame. I don’t know the answer to these things, and I value what you think. I can see a case where the numbers just won’t make sense for Apple to keep the Intel Macs going.

Anecdotally, I know several people who have largely transitioned to using iPads and iPhones: their iMacs and MacBooks sold or boxed up in cupboards. It feels as though change is happening. Do you perhaps see the same from your own non-Scrivener experiences? Do you see a shift in the tech support you offer for Scrivener? You have an insight I don’t have, and that insight is interesting, just as it is interesting to hear tech users like nontroppo talk about their experiences with Catalina. I welcome views shared (not shouted [by others]).


There's more to an ecosystem than tablets and phones. I believe Apple has said that they don't expect the high end Macs to be top sellers, but that they are critical tools for the content and software creators that Apple depends on to drive their hardware sales. I suspect there's also a halo effect: Audi doesn't sell many R8s, but people come to the showroom to see the supercar and end up buying something else. "Most powerful desktop computer available" is a nice title to have,

Personally, I don't see myself abandoning Mac OS until iPadOS (or whatever) supports true multitasking. I routinely swap between four or five applications when I'm working on an article. (Mail, multiple browser tabs, DevonThink, Scrivener, Scapple, sometimes others.) Other kinds of content creation have similar requirements. I love my iPad Mini and use it constantly, but only for a very specific list of tasks. It isn't the general purpose do everything tool that my iMac is. I don't, for instance, use my iPad when I'm handling support tickets for iOS Scrivener: I'll have it open to the application, but I'll actually write my answer to the request on my iMac.

Both Mac Scrivener and Win Scrivener generate significantly larger support volumes than iOS Scrivener. Some of that may be because the desktop versions have more of the complex features that tend to drive support requests -- the desktop versions may get more requests per thousand users -- but of course that also means that people are using those complex features.

Katherine
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kewms
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Sun May 31, 2020 9:06 pm Post

Login wrote:Anecdotally, I know several people who have largely transitioned to using iPads and iPhones: their iMacs and MacBooks sold or boxed up in cupboards. It feels as though change is happening.


What do they use at work, though?

Tablets and phones have unquestionably captured a large share of personal and recreational computer use, and have helped put software into places where it simply didn't exist before. But how much of that is an expansion of the overall market, rather than a displacement of existing tools?

Every browser tab and every mobile app has at least one developer (usually more) behind it. What are *those* people using?

Katherine
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