References

Le
Lenkiewicz

Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:38 pm Post

I’m writing a non-fiction book, which uses information obtained from various other sources. I want these sources listed at the back of the book. Therefore how can I add an incremental number next to each sentence, which refers to each source.

So my document might look like this.
The article reported that for people aged thirty-four to sixty cancer had overtaken heart disease. (1) A recent study estimated by 2015 cancer will be the leading cause of death. (2)

References (at back of book)
1. Mr C Geiger ‘The Cancer Survivors Club’ by OneWorld Publications.
2. Mr B Gottlieb ‘Alternative Cures’ by Ballantine Books.
3. Etc

I've tried working with the non-fiction document references, but can't get it working... Is this the option I should be using?

Any help welcome!

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lunk
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:22 pm Post

Wouldn't it be easier to use a reference software for this?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

re
reepicheep
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:01 pm Post

References and citations are one of the weakest areas in Scrivener in my opinion. It screws up my own non-fiction writing, which can be textbooks, papers for journals/conferences, and book reviews for professional magazines.

Who are your publishers and what is their house style? Some use numbered references like you have but it is more common to use a "key" based on author's family name and year of publication. Harvard, APA, and MLA are three of the common formats that you will see used by publishers but if you are familiar with LaTeX (a format that Scrivener can output in via File > Compile) there are thousands of these styles.

What will you do if

Code: Select all

The article reported that for people aged thirty-four to sixty cancer had overtaken heart disease. (1) A recent study estimated by 2015 cancer will be the leading cause of death. (2) …
has to be changed to

Code: Select all

The article reported that for people aged thirty-four to sixty cancer had overtaken heart disease. (1) However, it has been noted that people don't like citations outside of the sentence that refers to them. (3) A recent study estimated by 2015 cancer will be the leading cause of death. (2) …


If you have to insert a sentence yourself how will that affect the numbering scheme. It's for this reason that most publishers go with author names and year. Then collect all the references togetehr in alphabetical order of author name.

As my inserted sentence shows many readers do not like the citation key being outside of the sentence that discusses them.

Publishers have considerably more experience with references and citations that we, as authors, do. Let them tell you what they want and stick to it. If you are self publishing then still follow their advice as readers are used to the established conventions. Your readers will not thank you if you do something bizarre and unexpected.


My own solution is to the references handling problem is to create a folder called References in the Scrivener Binder as part of the Essay or Manuscript top level folder. Each reference is kept in an individual document (using the citation key as its title) and then drag and drop the references from a formal bibliography management program (I use BibDesk). If I mess up I can then use the Edit > Sort Paragraphs feature in Scrivener to keep them in order.

However, when I'm submitting camera ready copy to publishers I File > Compile the project to target MultiMarkDown → to LaTeX and then edit the resultant LaTeX to open the file(s) of my bibliography manager but then I've had years of working with LaTeX and bibtex workflows.
Techie details in case I forget

Scrivener 3.1.3 (11945)
Mac OS X 10.13.6
Scrivener 1.1.5 (1301)
iOS 9.3.5/12.3.1

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lunk
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:57 pm Post

reepicheep wrote:References and citations are one of the weakest areas in Scrivener in my opinion.


... so why not use a proper reference handling software that can work together with Scrivener? Specialized tools for specialized work...
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

ma
marcoiac
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:24 pm Post

I agree. You can compile your project in Word and then use a reference manager like Sente (which is getting quite buggy recently, I must say)

Le
Lenkiewicz

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:31 pm Post

Thanks for your feedback; so the various reference options in Scrivener don't / can't create a reference list, interesting. What reference software do you suggest? In MS Word I can create an automatic index, can I create a reference list (of sorts) using an auto index type option in Scrivener? All ideas sound very manually intensive and open to error. The publisher has its own style, as I sugget, just a small number at the end if the sentence, and a numeric list sorted in the order they are mentioned.. I was hoping Scrivener was going to help me, as its a lengthy document, with many chapters.
Last edited by Lenkiewicz on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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r6d2
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:39 pm Post

Lenkiewicz wrote:The publisher has its own style, as I sugget, just a small number at the end if the sentence, and a numeric list sorted in the order they are mentioned.. I was hoping Scrivener was going to help me....

If that's your objective, then I see no reason why simple footnotes won't do the job!
r6d2

Beware of realism when writing. Avoid the usual zoo inhabitants. Summon the unicorns and the tritons, and give them reality!
--Julio Cortázar

Le
Lenkiewicz

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:41 pm Post

r6d2 wrote:
Lenkiewicz wrote:The publisher has its own style, as I sugget, just a small number at the end if the sentence, and a numeric list sorted in the order they are mentioned.. I was hoping Scrivener was going to help me....

If that's your objective, then I see no reason why simple footnotes won't do the job!


How do footnotes work? Can I have one big footnote at the back if the book?

Le
Lenkiewicz

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:43 pm Post

lunk wrote:
reepicheep wrote:References and citations are one of the weakest areas in Scrivener in my opinion.


... so why not use a proper reference handling software that can work together with Scrivener? Specialized tools for specialized work...


Can you suggest any? I thought most non-fiction books had a list of references or sources?

Le
Lenkiewicz

Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:46 pm Post

marcoiac wrote:I agree. You can compile your project in Word and then use a reference manager like Sente (which is getting quite buggy recently, I must say)

Do you have a link for Sente; I can only find a library software with that name, not writing software? Thanks.

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MimeticMouton
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:51 pm Post

Lenkiewicz wrote:Can I have one big footnote at the back if the book?

You can choose to compile them as endnotes rather than as footnotes, so they're all together as a list at the end of the book. Section 17 of the user manual (available from the Help menu or the Getting Started category in the New Project window) covers working with footnotes.
Jennifer Hughes
(MM for short)

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chefpogo
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:54 pm Post

I think the proper solution to this problem is to look around for a citation manager, such as Endnote or Zotero - search the forum here for information on how to use these tools with Scrivener ... I've written two biographies and a host of research papers using scrivener and never had any trouble with references.

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r6d2
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:55 pm Post

Lenkiewicz wrote:How do footnotes work? Can I have one big footnote at the back if the book?

I don't know what you mean by one big footnote at the back of the book... :?

Anyway, Footnotes/Endnotes work in Scrivener much like they work on other programs. I suggest you to read Chapter 17 Annotations and Footnotes of the manual for a through explanation.

I'd also suggest that, if you haven't already, go though the Scrivener Tutorial offered when starting the program at least once, so you get an idea of the general working vision of the software as well as some language definitions which may help on the search of solutions to common problems and tips on how to do certain things.
r6d2

Beware of realism when writing. Avoid the usual zoo inhabitants. Summon the unicorns and the tritons, and give them reality!
--Julio Cortázar

re
reepicheep
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Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:25 pm Post

lunk wrote:
reepicheep wrote:References and citations are one of the weakest areas in Scrivener in my opinion.


... so why not use a proper reference handling software that can work together with Scrivener? Specialized tools for specialized work...
Exactly, which is why—as I said—I use Bibdesk, LaTeX and bibtex. Doesn't get more specialised tooled than that.
Techie details in case I forget

Scrivener 3.1.3 (11945)
Mac OS X 10.13.6
Scrivener 1.1.5 (1301)
iOS 9.3.5/12.3.1

ma
marcoiac
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Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:09 am Post

Lenkiewicz wrote:
marcoiac wrote:I agree. You can compile your project in Word and then use a reference manager like Sente (which is getting quite buggy recently, I must say)

Do you have a link for Sente; I can only find a library software with that name, not writing software? Thanks.


Sente is developed by Third Street Software. You may wan to look into other reference managers too, like Endnote, Zotero, Papers, Bookends (if it still exists)

Zotero is open source but only scans RTF files. Endnote, Sente, Papers, they are all somewhat similar. I used to use Endnote many years ago but it was really buggy. I heard it's much better now. I switched to Sente and loved it. I must say the recent versions are a bit buggy in Yosemite, but still a decent app