Looking to organise

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Siren
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:28 am Post

bodsham wrote:I am NOT buying any more of these things!

Bet you do, though. ;-) I'm always saying that, and I always succumb eventually...
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bodsham
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:17 am Post

Having discovered that Journler is no longer under active development and up for sale I have now switched my story organisation to MacJournal and documented exactly how I do this here - http://www.davidhewson.com/blog/2008/12/17/how-to-manage-a-book.html

MacJournal has several advantages over Journler it seems to me. It's a lot simpler to use. It can create a single dedicated file (in other words one for the book only, stored in the project folder). And it's nice and easy for producing a running journal about the book where I can record issues, ideas and progress.

I had bought MacJournal already by the way so this does not involve breaking my earlier promise that I ain't buying any more of this stuff! Storing research in Scrivener itself may well be enough for most people. I'm just a research freak and like developing ideas and themes outside the main manuscript - it seems to provide some kind of extra perspective.

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vic-k
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:01 am Post

Siren wrote:I'm always saying that, and I always succumb eventually...

I REST MY CASE :twisted:
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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AndreasE
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:10 pm Post

bodsham wrote:Having discovered that Journler is no longer under active development and up for sale


OMG?! :shock: :shock: :shock:

From where do you know that? The Journler website is still there, the developer is discussing the next version in the forum, displays screenshots... What has happend? When? Why?

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bodsham
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:18 pm Post

Well to be strictly accurate the developer says he...

'has begun entertaining the idea of selling Journler. It is ever more apparent that I am having a tough time of keeping up with the manifold facets of running this bad boy. It's difficult to say what the right thing to do here is, but if other developers could offer more to Journler and Journler's users than I am currently capable of, then I would consider it.'


http://journler.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3773

That was back in October and no news since. I'm afraid it doesn't fill me with confidence when it comes to the future. Also, to be honest when I dug out MacJournal, which I bought ages ago and never used, and tried it, I did find it a lot simpler. Plus it can save a specific single subject database in the project folder, which Journler can't.

Of course this probably means current Journler uses have absolutely nothing to worry about. But the lack of enthusiasm and uncertainty did make me look around I'm afraid.

As to future development I suggest you take a look here...

http://journler.com/community/forums/vi ... php?t=3726

Sad really but it must be very hard being a solitary software developer - makes me admire Keith's stalwart support for Scrivener even more.

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AmberV
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:51 pm Post

I did the same thing with my old copy of Circus Ponies Notebook. It was relatively easy to get everything out of Journler and into Notebook. While I like Journler's interface and philosophy a bit better, Notebook still isn't bad for a daily diary. I forgot how handy the automatically generated appendix feature is, too.

I'd forgotten I even had a licence. I tried it once years ago and never much cared for it, because at the time I was looking for something different. I wouldn't use it for any kind of serious document are research archival, but as a place to just type down daily thoughts and ideas---it's nice.
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Ioa Petra'ka
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exegete77
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:29 pm Post

a place to just type down daily thoughts and ideas


Guess that wouldn't work for me. Ideas are such rare commodities, that we celebrate any time they occur to me. We haven't thrown a party since Eisenhower was President. Or was it Truman?

And thoughts, well. ... this post illustrates the entirety of that concept. :mrgreen:






Seriously, I appreciate all the ideas and thoughts presented in this thread. Should last me a lifetime. :)

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AndreasE
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:45 pm Post

bodsham wrote:Well to be strictly accurate the developer says he...

'has begun entertaining the idea of selling Journler. It is ever more apparent that I am having a tough time of keeping up with the manifold facets of running this bad boy. It's difficult to say what the right thing to do here is, but if other developers could offer more to Journler and Journler's users than I am currently capable of, then I would consider it.'


http://journler.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3773

That was back in October and no news since. I'm afraid it doesn't fill me with confidence when it comes to the future. Also, to be honest when I dug out MacJournal, which I bought ages ago and never used, and tried it, I did find it a lot simpler. Plus it can save a specific single subject database in the project folder, which Journler can't.

Of course this probably means current Journler uses have absolutely nothing to worry about.


But I do worry. Journler is one of my three most important applications; I practically live in it! And it would not be the first time that an awesome application that I rely upon gets sold and, afterwards, abandoned or miscontinued/maldeveloped.

In the moment, there is no practical reason to worry, OK. Journler 2.5 is close to perfect, if it would go on working as it is the rest of my life I'd had nothing to complain. The problem is, the underlying computers tend to develop away from applications... :(

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bodsham
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:55 pm Post

I sympathise. We do place a lot of reliance on these things. But if you've got a lot of material in there already I wouldn't worry too much. It is very easy to export as a last resort after all, and frankly I can't see it becoming unusable from a simple OS X update. If I was already committed I think I'd stay committed but since I was a beginner, and had MacJournal already, it made sense for me to switch.

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suavito
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:44 pm Post

I'm quite shocked to hear that about Journler. After I had tested a number of organizing and journaling apps only two candidates stayed in the race, Journler and Together.

It seems I went for the right candidate—Together—but there is certainly no feeling of triumph here. Both programs are quite similar, it appeared to me that they were aiming for same goal but coming from two different directions: Together at first place being an organizer and improving its note taking features more and more, Journler, as its name tells, made for journaling but with amazing storage features.

I do feel very sorry for Phil. He put so much effort in creating a great piece of software and decided to take money for it way too late—why should anyone pay for 2.6 when 2.5 was already amazing?

And it reminds us how fast something can come to an end if it depends on just one single person …

a place to just type down daily thoughts and ideas


Guess that wouldn't work for me. Ideas are such rare commodities, that we celebrate any time they occur to me. We haven't thrown a party since Eisenhower was President. Or was it Truman?


Can it be you are just waiting for the BIG idea? The important one that will be the corner stone to the new best selling novel (or whatever you are writing)?

I use Together like Amber does use her note book software and it is a lot of stuff I put into it. So am I a genius and you are not? No, not at all. I just switched off any kind of filters (like good taste, for example) and just let it flow. There isn't any plan behind it. It comes from somewhere and might go somewhere. Most of it won't, though, because it's just crap. But if you keep collecting it and re-read it after a while some of it might make sense for any of your existing projects or a new one. Type down, maybe tag, wait what happens.

The biggest problem I face is the fact that in my case the old cliché is right and a lot of ideas come while brushing my teeth. The monotonous moving of the brush (not electrical) while being in a distraction free environment seems to have some impact on the brain cells. But no Together or anything around. Paper isn't a friend of places with water and cleaning products around neither.

(Just to make this clear: This is not the way I write texts. It's just the first level of collecting little pieces which might be a part of something bigger. The writing itself is craftsmanship and it is done in Scrivener.)
Author’s Preface

I wrote this book in less than two hours. I think I’ve made as much of it as one could in such a short time.

Eugen Egner, Androids from Milk

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AmberV
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:33 pm Post

suavito wrote:Paper isn't a friend of places with water and cleaning products around neither.


It is a little on the pricey side (at least compared to most paper products), but have you tried those waterproof papers? They are usually marketed to engineers and field workers, archaeologists and the like, but I have found them to be completely invaluable. And they are totally waterproof---even works in the shower. For someone living in a part of the world that gets drenched a good 1/2 of the year, it has saved more than a few ideas from absent mindedness. The trick is to use a pencil or a space pen (the kind with pressurised waterproof ink). Pencil is cheaper, though. :) Regular pens will just deposit ink which floats around on the surface of the paper. Kind of amusing, but not very useful.

http://www.waterproof-paper.com/waterproof-field-book.html
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RobertB
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Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:14 am Post

I'm surprised no one has mentioned VoodooPad for organization. It's a bit more freeform than something like Journler, MacJournal, or Together but I find it invaluable. From ideas, notes, thoughts, recipes, reference, and various other "stuff", I can just throw it in and watch links form over time. Plus, now that you can edit images in Acorn and save it right back into a VoodooPad page makes it even more useful to me. I'd highly recommend it.

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brett
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Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:46 am Post

I'm always fascinated by these threads -- thanks to all who have contributed. RobertB and others -- I'm a little thickheaded about envisioning exactly how to apply these cool apps to my work process, and need it spelled out in actual examples. I downloaded Journler and VoodooPad sometime back and never could figure out exactly how they'd be useful to me, as ingenious as they are. In fact, I recently stopped using DevonNote and OmniOutlliner and work only in Scrivener and the Finder now for organizing and writing. So, if you have time, it'd be great if you could describe step by step how you make VooDoo Pad etc work in the context of writing an actual article. If not, I understand and please keep the recommendations coming. Thanks!

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alexwein
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Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:40 am Post

brett wrote:I'm always fascinated by these threads -- thanks to all who have contributed. RobertB and others -- I'm a little thickheaded about envisioning exactly how to apply these cool apps to my work process, and need it spelled out in actual examples. I downloaded Journler and VoodooPad sometime back and never could figure out exactly how they'd be useful to me, as ingenious as they are. In fact, I recently stopped using DevonNote and OmniOutlliner and work only in Scrivener and the Finder now for organizing and writing. So, if you have time, it'd be great if you could describe step by step how you make VooDoo Pad etc work in the context of writing an actual article. If not, I understand and please keep the recommendations coming. Thanks!


Hi Brett! I seem to recall other discussions like this! I have done the same thing. Scr. and Finder, though I'm waiting for DT Pro 2.0 to see if it works better for me. I used to use DT Pro for all my information warehousing, but with Scr., that changed. I needed files to be accessible to multiple projects, so it no longer worked. There are things I do like about Dt, including wiki links, and still use it for some things like my rather massive anatomy db (from my yoga studies). A.
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bodsham
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Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:10 am Post

Someone privately prompted me to look at Eaglefiler too, which I always thought of as a database for emails and stuff. And actually... rats, that's rather good. Perhaps in some ways better than MacJournal. And it's the one thing in all this I've never bought. Nor will I. Honest. Looks good though. Pretty good...