Ulysses 1.6

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bashosfrog
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:16 am Post

Interesting ... Blue-Tec has released a Scrivener-priced limited version of Ulysses, "Ulysses Core". I admire Blue-Tec's design ethic, and I value the ability to export text files in Windows format, but I'm not sure that I'm persuaded to switch. It's interesting to tinker with another paradigm, though. Blue-Tec has been an important innovator. I wonder if the Scrivener of today would exist without Ulysses?

[edit] Not Scrivener-priced, in fact - I missed that the figure was in Euros, which still makes Ulysses core substantially more. Odd pricing policy - isn't a Euro in the hand better than having the would-be user wander off and finding Scrivener?
Last edited by bashosfrog on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

si
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:18 am Post

A comparison between both versions can be found here (the link on the blu-tec website has a typo)

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zikade
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:21 am Post

In fact I do like Ulysses very much - if only for its localization (and no, I won't nag again, Keith :twisted: ) and it's still pretty fast on an old ibook g3.
If somebody owns one of those ancient machines, give it a try.
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Siren
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:40 am Post

zikade wrote: an old ibook g3.
If somebody owns one of those ancient machines

Harrrrummmmph! Who are you calling "old" and "ancient"?!?!?! My iBook G3 is absolutely lovely, thank you very much, and I have no desire whatsoever to replace it (at least, not for a very long time to come)! :-)
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zikade
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:54 am Post

Siren wrote:
zikade wrote: an old ibook g3.
If somebody owns one of those ancient machines

Harrrrummmmph! Who are you calling "old" and "ancient"?!?!?! My iBook G3 is absolutely lovely, thank you very much, and I have no desire whatsoever to replace it (at least, not for a very long time to come)! :-)

Erh...em..well, you know... I do have one of those myself, somewhere in the (i)bookshelf.

No offense meant.

Really.

Friends again?!?
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Ro
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:24 pm Post

I still don't get the philosophy behind Ulysses. It doesn't seem to be the right app for me... Congratulations the blue-tec group, but I still love Scrivener.

Read this arrogant blog post: http://travelog.blue-tec.com/?p=38

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antony
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:51 pm Post

I don't think that's particularly arrogant. His attitude strikes me as quite similar to Keith's with Scrivener - you can suggest and ask for features as much as you want, but Keith will only implement those he thinks fit with his vision of the app, and he makes no guarantees as to when (if ever) such updates might happen. You buy the app for what it can do right now, not what it might become.

All good software developers follow the same philosophy, and we're blessed that many of them - Panic, Delicious, Red Sweater, Rogue Amoeba and more - are on the Mac.
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zikade
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:52 pm Post

RodiX wrote:Read this arrogant blog post: http://travelog.blue-tec.com/?p=38


Well, I just read that one and I do wonder where the arrogance went you mentioned. It sounds more like he is pissed, but then I can see his point clearly.

Same attitude, different thing: Whenever I complete a new chapter, I give it out to some of my friends, hoping for some comments. Some want some changes, and I will consider them - or not, depends on the mood I am in. But, in the end, the decision what changes I will write into the story is mine, and mine alone. And mostly I'm not into discussing what changes went not into the the story and why.

And if you ever read the Scriverner Wish List, you'll find Keith is doing the same thing... more diplomatically, perhaps, but like Kant did say once: It's all about the intention.

No offense meant.
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Ro
RodiX
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:28 pm Post

I think I should have explain what I meant. I totally agree with the way they develop Ulysses. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. It's just that I don't like how he talks about it.

Maybe it's just me... I'm sorry, I don't want to upset anybody.

zikade wrote:And if you ever read the Scriverner Wish List, you'll find Keith is doing the same thing... more diplomatically, perhaps, but like Kant did say once: It's all about the intention.
Some short stories in French.

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zikade
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:41 pm Post

RodiX wrote:Maybe it's just me... I'm sorry, I don't want to upset anybody.


Nothing to be sorry about - as I wrote earlier, I really think he IS pissed ... so, you did perceive his post as arrogance and I as being pissed off.

But then, he is german, and we get pissed off by almost everything ;)
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fg
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:45 pm Post

zikade wrote:But then, he is german, and we get pissed off by almost everything ;)


That's simply not true!

Now, you got me pissed off.

Franz ;-)

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zikade
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:07 pm Post

fgrieser wrote:That's simply not true!

Now, you got me pissed off.

Franz ;-)


Stop making my point, or else....

Uh, got carried away, there.
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fg
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:35 pm Post

Ja, servus. Noch jemand von "near Munich" (ist mir gar nicht aufgefallen, oder ist die Angabe neu?)

Herzliche Grüße aus Hohenschäftlarn.

Ve
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:36 pm Post

I have taken a look at Ulysses, and I have to admit I don't get it. Why the focus on using symbols in the text to create formatting? That's kind of wiki-like, right? Is there an advantage to this approach?

What else in Ulysses makes it unique or different? Or, more aptly, what about it would make someone choose it as their primary composition tool?

Thanks!

Steve

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KB
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Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:38 pm Post

Blue-Tec has been an important innovator. I wonder if the Scrivener of today would exist without Ulysses?


I can honestly say, "Yes, it would." Would it have been the same as it is today? No, definitely not. Ulysses had an influence on Scrivener - I wrote a lengthy blog post about this some time ago but am feeling too ill right now to look it up. But basically, writer's project management tools have been around on Windows for a while - NewNovelist, RoughDraft, WriteItNow and suchlike - and I tried them all. None fitted what I wanted. So I designed my own app on paper (rather mawkishly called "BookTree" - yeah, grow your book, bleugh). When I moved to the Mac, Ulysses was one of the first things I downloaded and it blew me away. Except I'm a rich text guy. And I like hierarchical folders. And I wanted an outliner... Etc. But the three pane interface of Ulysses, its full screen mode and its notes, labels and status systems were things I liked so much that I wanted them in my own app, so Ulysses is definitely a big influence.

And I hope they continue to go strong, as from my own personal experience they are very nice - and helpful - guys. As a user I sometimes didn't understand their rather protective stance towards Ulysses and certain user demands... Until I started developing Scrivener and found myself in the same situation on occasion. So, I do understand their frustration. Honestly, I have had users tell my that Scrivener is stupid and ridiculous just because it didn't do one particular thing that they thought it should do. I have even had a couple of personal insults. So it goes.

What else in Ulysses makes it unique or different? Or, more aptly, what about it would make someone choose it as their primary composition tool?


A few years ago, Ulysses was very unique and different on the Mac. It's only that upstarts such as myself have come along and do something similar albeit in a different way. But Ulysses is most certainly still unique. There are a number of prose (and poetry and anything else for that matter) writers who much prefer to write in plain text because they just don't trust rich text. (Often they seem to think that you might not be able to open an RTF file in 20 years whereas you will "always" be able to open plain text. Hmm, unless we run out of fuel and our computers become desk ornaments, of course... But often users just don't like rich text very much, too, or are used to using plain text for their publishers or LaTeX or whatever.) Ulysses is probably the only tool out there that really caters to this user group - and they say themselves that it is a small group, but Ulysses is what the developers wanted and they have always been very focussed. Personally, as a developer I have a lot of respect for the Blue-Tec guys and the way they approach updates. I think it's an admirable model. Sadly, I have a sneaking suspicion they don't hold me in quite such high regard...

The other reason we’re left for is the feature-set we provide. My impression is that the OSX world is somewhat crazy for “real OSX apps”. You don’t have crazy animations, you don’t have a 3D view of your preview texts in conjunction with the blue bar at the left and the same layout as iTunes or Mail? Just shut down. This makes no sense for the kind fo app you wanna do? Then the app is not needed. That’s it, is it? Products are made by it’s users, not by the developer. “He really listens to what we (= I) really really want.” (did I forget a few “really”s ?) This - at least in my opinion - directly translates to “he has no concept, he builds in every request”.


Eek. I do think that may be me. I hope not, though, as I don't really think it describes my approach to Scrivener at all...

Anyway, I hope Ulysses continues to go strong. Whatever they may or may not think of Scrivener, Ulysses is a fantastic OS X app and deserves all of the lavish praise it has always and still does receive.

All the best,
Keith