Help requested picking an info/file/knowledge manager

Pl
Plette
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Sat May 03, 2008 7:08 pm Post

I know that a lot of people on this forum have experience with a variety of different info managers, and I would like to request some guidance. I know exactly what I want to do, but I'm not sure if there's a program that actually does it.

I know there are oodles of programs. I've searched this forum and read many threads in which people discuss the different options. Some programs I already own: Notebook (although I use this strictly for note taking in classes and want it to remain that way), Yojimbo (which I don't use anymore), and Journler/Voodoopad (which are both perfect in some ways, but neither are quite what I want them to be). Most of the other programs I have heard of (at least, I think I have at least heard of them all: off the top of my head: Eaglefiler, Tinderbox, Devonthink, Together, Bento, Filemaker) but it's difficult to see whether they're what I need without downloading and trying all of them. I'm not sure I really grasp the extent of what they all do. I am hoping if I describe what I want, someone here can point me in the right direction.

Here is what I want:
- A program that will allow me to organise and integrate all my "stuff." There are many different types of things: personal journal entries, academic papers written by me or others, ebooks, notes and lists I make to keep organised, my writing on many topics, articles from the web on countless random things, snippets of half formed thoughts I want to file for later, recipes, letters and emails, pictures, etc.

- I want connections between my stuff. I like writing a journal entry in which I mention tigers and then seeing the word highlight as a keyword because I clipped an article on tigers two months ago and forgot about it. I like those connections building and growing as I add more data. I have tried doing this in a personal wiki in Voodoopad. It works, kind of, except for two huge problems: 1) it's great for text or the odd picture, but you can't really put files into it because it's at base a document, not a database; and 2) capture of info is too cumbersome.

- I would vastly prefer that things remain in their native format because if I am going to trust all my data to something it's essential that it not be lost or locked in.

- Tagging/keywording is important and effective tag handling is essential. I like tags because they give me a way to see, for example, everything associated with politics, whether it be my own writing on the subject, articles I clipped, or emails I received. I have tried Journler and liked it in many ways, but found its lack of a proper tag manager very limiting, which prevented me from continuing with it.

- I don't want to spend more time setting everything up than I do actually inputting and accessing data! As much as possible, the structure and organisation should maintain itself once established: tagging and other ways of creating links between things should be easy enough that they become second nature.

- I like the ability to customise and tweak things. I don't mind a steep learning curve if a program has the power and the tools to make the climb worthwhile.

- A pricier piece of software is fine but only if it will actually do what it says on the tin. I am very wary of dropping $150 on something unless I am positive I'm going to actually be able to use it and have it do what I want.

So, does anyone have any recommendations? Does this sort of thing exist? Am I missing some obvious solution?

User avatar
kewms
Posts: 5435
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Sat May 03, 2008 8:05 pm Post

I would suggest having a look at DevonThink. It doesn't have tagging, but IMO the AI is powerful enough that you don't actually need it. (And it does have comments, which will work in a pinch.) Not only will it find everything related to tigers, but it's capable of realizing that lions and cougars are also cats, and giving you those items as well. It supports wiki-style linking, and is extremely scriptable, however I haven't used those features enough to comment on them.

Where it really shines, though, is scalability. It's quite comfortable with databases running to hundreds of items and millions of words. In my experience, most of the programs you list become unmanageable before they get even close to that volume of information.

Highly recommended.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

User avatar
George the Flea
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:41 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Sun May 04, 2008 2:45 pm Post

Though I can't speak for Tinderbox (never had the patience to try it), I doubt you're going to find a program that fits all of your requirements. Specifically, I don't know of any general-usage file managers that offer this:

I want connections between my stuff. I like writing a journal entry in which I mention tigers and then seeing the word highlight as a keyword because I clipped an article on tigers two months ago and forgot about it.


Currently, software either offers contextual linking within a document (VoodooPad) or external to documents (EagleFiler, Leap, etc.). I, too, would love to see a program that worked for both.

EagleFiler, as you mentioned, might work. It has better tagging than Together or Yojimbo (although it doesn't permit smart folders, which is a major limitation), and its storage format is Finder-friendly (so is Together's, I believe, but it's less open about where it stores its info). However, you'll have to set up all contextual links using tags and searching. And scalability is of course an issue, as referenced by Katherine. I use EagleFiler for archiving documents and email; I would be leery of using it as my primary file browser.

Leap might also work for you for rolling your own solution. Leap works best as a supplemental file browser, but if you use Default Folder X you can tag things as you save them initially, which makes the workflow a lot simpler (any software that requires you to go back over your files after you've created them in order to tag and organize them is going to be a workflow that will be easy to forget or abandon).

Good luck!
Find me online at Beckism.com

Ve
Vermonter17032
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:24 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

Sun May 04, 2008 8:45 pm Post

I am new to the Mac (well, really returning, as I had a Mac II 18 years ago), so my experience isn't very extensive at this point, but I would have to agree that the all around best information manager is DevonThink. In fact, DevonThink can create wiki-style links automatically if you set that option. I believe it will automatically create links to any other document in the current database which has the same name as the linked word or phrase. The word or phrase has to match perfectly, including letter case.

Steve

Pl
Plette
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Mon May 05, 2008 1:56 am Post

I appreciate the feedback. I have decided to give DevonThink a closer look and just downloaded the trial. I have a feeling I won't be able to find a program that does exactly what I want, so I may just have to settle for the closest possible approximation either in one program or a combination of several.

If I were industrious, like Keith, I would run out and learn how to program and develop the app that I wish existed. I don't see that happening anytime soon, though.

an
angee
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:40 am
Location: Sydney AU
Contact:

Sun May 18, 2008 4:58 am Post

A program that will allow me to organise and integrate all my "stuff." There are many different types of things: personal journal entries, academic papers written by me or others, ebooks, notes and lists I make to keep organised, my writing on many topics, articles from the web on countless random things, snippets of half formed thoughts I want to file for later, recipes, letters and emails, pictures, etc.


I never thought I'd hear myself saying this about a database program, but Bento will do what you need.

I've always hated databases (frightened by MS Access at a young and tender age), but Bento is truly special. Not only does it look great, but it stores everything you'd like to toss into it.

Here's a forum for Bento uses: http://forums.filemaker.com/fmbnto/board?board.id=clus

I use Bento to:

* Collate all my articles, where published, when. rights etc
* Keep track of all my Web sites
* Manage my ebooks' information
* Manage proposals and article queries
* Keep publisher lists
* Track royalty-free images I buy online

... and much more.

Bento creates "libraries" - separate databases. You can link your data together in libraries, but it's not a fully relational database - it's still very new, so doubtless it will become more "relational" over time.

For a very cheap little program it's very handy, when you want some structure in what you're managing/ tracking.

I tend to buy every new info manager that comes out, and all are useful - DevonThink, Together and YoJimbo are my current favorites, but I use Bento every day too.

I think you can try Bento for a month, so give it a trial.

Cheers

Angela

JR
JRP
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:30 am

Sun May 18, 2008 6:19 pm Post

I use DTPro and Together, together. Promising is DTPro 2, which the developers promise will be out in 2008. It promises tags and several other improvements along the lines you've stated, along with an updated UI.

User avatar
George the Flea
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:41 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Tue May 20, 2008 2:29 pm Post

Together 2.1 might be worth a second look, as well. It now allows you to link to specific items in the library, among other excellent improvements.
Find me online at Beckism.com

User avatar
xiamenese
Posts: 4080
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:32 am
Platform: Mac
Location: London or Exeter, UK.

Tue May 20, 2008 4:09 pm Post

I've just downloaded Together for a trial, to see if it suits me better than Yojimbo. What I want is something that will act like a librarian cataloguing and linking files stored separately in folders and so also directly accessible through the finder, i.e. not stored in some proprietary database format. I believe Together is like that, but Yojimbo is not.

The other thing that I want, and I'm not at all clear that this is the case with Together, and that is that it can also catalogue files held on external disks.

Sadly, I don't think two weeks trial is going to be long enough for me to really see if it works for me.

Mark
The Scrivenato sometimes known as Mr X.
rMBP 13" (early 2015) 10.14.6, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
MBP17" (late 2011) 10.13.6, 8GB RAM, 512GB SSID
2017 iPad, iOS 12.3.1, 128GB, Apple Pencil
Scrivener, Scapple, Nisus Writer Pro, Bookends …

User avatar
George the Flea
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:41 pm
Platform: Mac
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Wed May 21, 2008 6:51 pm Post

I'm not sure if Together can catalogue external disks or not. Probably worth asking about that (and any other features you need) over at the Together forums.
Find me online at Beckism.com