Scapple now has competitors: CmapTools & Mindomo.com (in 'Concept Map' mode)

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ship69
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:21 am Post

Hello

I just thought L&L should be made aware that Scapple now has some competitors stalking what it does.

One is IHMC CmapTools
And the other is Mindomo.com's "Concept Maps"

I'd be interested to hear what anyone here makes of each of them.

J

Moderator comment: Moved to "Software by Other Folk"
Last edited by Siren on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: relates to non-L&L products

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Jordi Mora

Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:12 am Post

ship69 wrote:Hello

I just thought L&L should be made aware that Scapple now has some competitors stalking what it does.

One is IHMC CmapTools
And the other is Mindomo.com's "Concept Maps"

I'd be interested to hear what anyone here makes of each of them.

J


I've investigated CMAP in the past, and I just had a look at Mindomo (and its subscriptions prices) - and I don't think either are a real `competitor' to Scapple - in fact I think that to see them as competitors makes a (pretty common) mistake about what Scapple is: Keith has always insisted that it is a deliberately simple, computer-based, `Whiteboard' - no hierarchy of levels, nothing fancy.

I use it daily (alongside Tinderbox and sometimes iThoughts) just for generally fairly disposable first thoughts on a great variety of projects and find that deliberate simplicity essential to its function.

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ship69
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:18 pm Post

Yes, but it seems to me to be a waste that Scapple remains so clunky.

I am by no means an expert in these tools, but my central point is that some of these other tools can do everything Scapple does... and then some.

Meanwhile a friend has suggested Bubbl.us which connects its "bubbles" either with a line (like Scapple does) OR you can have the concept of parent-child relationship. The latter are linked visually differently and the child moves around the colour wheel with respect to the parent (which I am still trying to decide whether that is such a good thing!)

Either way Bubbl.us allows teams to work on the same diagram and comment/vote on stuff which is an interesting twist.

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lunk
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:22 pm Post

People are different. I prefer to have dedicated apps that are really good at one thing, so I use both Scapple and iThoughts and actually prefer that they are different and do different things (although I do wish there was a iOS version of Scapple). Having one app that try to do what several other apps do is a bit like having a universal multi-tool when working as a carpenter instead of having separate tools for different parts of the work.

In what way is Scapple "clunky"?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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matsgz
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:29 pm Post

lunk wrote:In what way is Scapple "clunky"?


+
Scribo ergo sum

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ship69
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:40 pm Post

matsgz wrote:
lunk wrote:In what way is Scapple "clunky"?


+


I could list about 5+ but given that development has stopped there is no point.

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lunk
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:37 am Post

You don't use Scapple then?

A tool doesn't have to change or be "developed" to be useful. My 20 year old hammer is as good as the new one I recently bought.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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ship69
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:02 am Post

lunk wrote:You don't use Scapple then?

A tool doesn't have to change or be "developed" to be useful. My 20 year old hammer is as good as the new one I recently bought.


Your old hammer with it's wooden shaft has an uncomfortable grip. And if I use something which is essentially low in cost every day, then I want the best. Partly it's a lifestyle more than an economic choice I guess.

Moreover it doesn't have one of those new-fangled hook-claw things at the back for pulling out nails which is very useful occasionally

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lunk
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:58 am Post

Scapple has always had competitors able to do a lot more than Scapple does. You only have to search the net for 'freeform mindmap' and you will find several competitors. Interestingly enough, some of the more advanced "competitors" have actually disappeared during the last few years, or the support for them has disappeared.

You will never succeed in producing good products if you anxiously observe what possible competitors do and try to mimic that. Successful ideas are usually based on some fundamental principle which makes it different than other apparently similar ideas. Sometimes someone will see a really good idea and come up with an idea to make it even better, and there is no way to prevent that, even with patents.

I am quite sure that once the new Mac version of Scrivener is ready, there will be some kind of overhaul of Scapple, because Keith himself probably has found a few things he would like the to be able to do for him. Until then I will keep using the current version, because it's really good at what it's doing. :)


(my old hammer from the mid 1980s has a stainless steel shaft with a comfortable rubber grip, and the claw-like backend for pulling out nails is found not only on that one but also on the hammer I inherited from my grandfather, which he bought in the 1920s)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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ship69
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:41 am Post

lunk wrote:You will never succeed in producing good products if you anxiously observe what possible competitors do and try to mimic that. Successful ideas are usually based on some fundamental principle which makes it different than other apparently similar ideas. Sometimes someone will see a really good idea and come up with an idea to make it even better, and there is no way to prevent that, even with patents.


If you fail to evolve eventually you will die, it's as simple as that.

There is absolutely no harm in observing your competitors - in fact it is a totally sound thing to be doing occasionally at the very least - however you certainly do need to know precisely what you are doing and why. And you need to make sure that you still have a clear niche and competitive advantage.

By your own logic I have to ask: why did you buy a new hammer in the 1980s when you had a perfectly good one that your grandfather gave you?(!)

Right I must go

J


PS Before I go, any chance of someone solving my stacking problem. Maybe I'm just being thick but I can't get stacking to work correctly... viewtopic.php?f=50&t=35688

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Jordi Mora

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:52 am Post

ship69 wrote:If you fail to evolve eventually you will die, it's as simple as that.


Actually, no - only if your environment changes and no longer affords you an equable habitat.

As you can tell from the responses you (and other threads with the same idea) are getting: Scapple is flourishing because it fits its niche pretty well.
Last edited by Jordi Mora on Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lunk
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:56 am Post

ship69 wrote:By your own logic I have to ask: why did you buy a new hammer in the 1980s when you had a perfectly good one that your grandfather gave you?(!)


I hadn't inherited it yet, in the mid 1980s. ;)

'Inherit' usually means that the former owner is no longer in a state to give anyone anything. My grandfather didn't give me the hammer.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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ship69
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:15 pm Post

Dr Dog wrote:
ship69 wrote:If you fail to evolve eventually you will die, it's as simple as that.


Actually, no - only if your environment changes and no longer affords you an equable habitat.

As you can tell from the responses you (and other threads with the same idea) are getting: Scapple is flourishing because it fits its niche.


Part of your 'habitat' is that someone else evolves who eventually steals your lunch, because they do what you do but do it better.

Wait - now I get it. Scapple is a religion!
And there's no successful convincing someone that their religion in incorrect or needs a little fine tuning... let alone an entire upgrade.

Scapple akbar! Scapple akbar! Scapple is perfect! Death to non-believing infidels!

Good luck

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lunk
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:39 pm Post

ship69 wrote:Wait - now I get it. Scapple is a religion!


If it was a religion, surely we would be urging the developers to upgrade and update to beat the competitors? And we are doing that, right? Only those that urge the developers to evolve the app to the "one app to rule them all" could be called a cult. And no one is saying that, right?

Oh... just read your initial post. :)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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xiamenese
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:28 pm Post

ship69 wrote:Part of your 'habitat' is that someone else evolves who eventually steals your lunch, because they do what you do but do it better.

Wait - now I get it. Scapple is a religion!
And there's no successful convincing someone that their religion in incorrect or needs a little fine tuning... let alone an entire upgrade.

Scapple akbar! Scapple akbar! Scapple is perfect! Death to non-believing infidels!**

Good luck


Now that is truly offensive!

** My emboldening.
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