Index Card 4 - Corkboard Writing App for iPad

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spg
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:41 am Post

I bought index card 4 thinking I could "sync". I've abandoned index card for iOS now as it is very much a one way process if you use formatting. Useful if you start a project in index card and want to export to .scriv to continue in Scrivener. Not good if you want to hop back and forwards between the two, as the formatting does indeed get stripped out, and index card cannot import .scriv format.

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xiamenese
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:56 am Post

spg wrote:I bought index card 4 thinking I could "sync". I've abandoned index card for iOS now as it is very much a one way process if you use formatting. Useful if you start a project in index card and want to export to .scriv to continue in Scrivener. Not good if you want to hop back and forwards between the two, as the formatting does indeed get stripped out, and index card cannot import .scriv format.

Not surprising when you remember that a .scriv is not a single linear file, but potentially thousands of files linked by the .scrivx, not something iOS is designed to handle. That is the root of the sync problem that Keith and Co. are having to overcome for Scrivener for iOS.

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nom
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:22 am Post

lunk wrote:If so, the developers of Scrivener are equally loose in their definition of "sync".

You can export the content of the Draft folder to a Dropbox rtf-file, using the Sync command, and edit it with e.g. Textilus on an iPad, and then "sync" the modified rtf-file with your Scrivener project when you are back in Scrivener. Not much different from syncing with Indexcard. The only real difference is that you have to use a Collection and can't use rtf-format from Scrivener to Index Card, but that is hardly the fault of the Index Card developer.


Uhh, no. It's very different. Unless I completely misunderstood the following description on the Index Card website:
Index Card 4 adds the ability to export your Index Card projects as a .scriv Scrivener file.

and...
Scrivener for Mac OS can sync projects with Index Card (i.e. import and export .indexcard file format).


This is different from the folder sync function in Scrivener (I really don't understand why you used the quotation marks around "sync"). There is no import or export. I just write in Scriv, and then write on my iPad (or TextEdit, or iPhone, or wife's Windows machine, or via a web-editor, or...).

To illustrate: I just made a new folder into a Cubby and then synced it to a Scrivener project. For fun, I created a project Keyword named "Cubby_sync" and every document in the project with this keyword gets added to a collection that is then synced to my new Cubby. In my iPad, I use a cloud aware app (in this case, Readdle's Documents) to open that Cubby and... look! There they are!! Readable, editable, documents that are now automagically kept in sync with no more effort required by me. I change them on my iPad (including typeface, colours, etc) and those changes appear in Scrivener. No import. No export. It just happens. How is that not sync?

As I said, this is not to denigrate Index Card—I certainly don't want have a go at an indie developer—it is just that the app does not seem to do what it says on the label (unless "sync" is being used in a different way to other apps*).

*Although I suppose it is possible that "import and export" are being used in a different way, but since I have not bought Index Card because of the normal meaning of those words, I can't check which terminology is being used correctly.
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lunk
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:10 pm Post

nom wrote:This is different from the folder sync function in Scrivener (I really don't understand why you used the quotation marks around "sync"). There is no import or export. I just write in Scriv, and then write on my iPad (or TextEdit, or iPhone, or wife's Windows machine, or via a web-editor, or...).

To illustrate: I just made a new folder into a Cubby and then synced it to a Scrivener project. For fun, I created a project Keyword named "Cubby_sync" and every document in the project with this keyword gets added to a collection that is then synced to my new Cubby. In my iPad, I use a cloud aware app (in this case, Readdle's Documents) to open that Cubby and... look! There they are!! Readable, editable, documents that are now automagically kept in sync with no more effort required by me. I change them on my iPad (including typeface, colours, etc) and those changes appear in Scrivener. No import. No export. It just happens. How is that not sync?


I used quotation marks because I was quoting a previous comment on syncing.

I think we define synchronization differently you and I.
I use NoteSuite for some of my writing, on both my iPad and my Mac. It syncs, automatically, without me doing anything. A write on the iPad, put it down, open the Mac, continue writing, etc. Syncing in Scrivener require that you set up a syncing folder in which the files are saved in e.g. rtf-format, and it doesn't automatically sync with this folder, unless you close and reopen Scrivener or the project.

I prefer Textilus on the iPad, but Documents works in a similar way. The big difference between these note apps and IndexCard is that in IndexCard you actually import and see the whole project at once. I get a better overview in IndexCard, but have a better writing environment in Textilus.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:33 pm Post

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lunk
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:44 pm Post

... exactly. Scrivener doesn't automatically sync, unless you close and reopen the project or Scrivener.

You can manually sync, by choosing File - Sync - With external folder now, or click on Sync, but to me that's not automatic syncing. :)

And both alternatives demand that you first manually set up the syncing, choosing file location etc.

Scrivener has a fantastic automatic feature for saving and backup, which is really automatic. If automatic syncing had been equally simple to set up, I assume it would already have been implemented, right?

But what I don't understand is why IndexCard can't read Scrivener files when it can write them?
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:48 pm Post

lunk wrote:But what I don't understand is why IndexCard can't read Scrivener files when it can write them?


I am puzzled too...

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nom
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Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:10 am Post

lunk wrote:I think we define synchronization differently you and I.
I use NoteSuite for some of my writing, on both my iPad and my Mac. It syncs, automatically, without me doing anything. A write on the iPad, put it down, open the Mac, continue writing, etc. Syncing in Scrivener require that you set up a syncing folder in which the files are saved in e.g. rtf-format, and it doesn't automatically sync with this folder, unless you close and reopen Scrivener or the project.


I guess we do. I can't imagine why I'd need to edit a document on my iPad while I had Scrivener open on my computer, so for me this is a moot point. But even allowing for the times when I might *want* to do it (such as last night when I created the test file I described), there is no need for me to import or export anything, I click the icon and sync is complete. That counts as sync for me.

Yes, there is a process to set it up, but given this allows me to sync with *any* app that will read RTF files from a folder, I don't see this as outrageous. Since the same applies with whatever app I use at the other end, this isn't unique to Scrivener. Kudos to KB for enabling this to happen. I think that it is unfair to compare this level of open access syncing to an app synchronising it's own propriety file format with itself.

But once again, I want to be clear that this is not an attack on other apps and add that I'm not claiming Scrivener suits everyone. I would love an app that syncs an entire Scrivener project, including structure and notes, etc. Such an app does not, yet, publicly exist. If this was absolute requirement for me then I'd need to find an alternative to Scrivener. Instead, it's only a wish-list item so I'll wait for iOS Scriv to be released. My posts above were triggered because I was excited to see Index Card promote sync, and then disappointed to read that what that *really* meant was a continual process of import and export (and import, and export, and...). If that works for others, fantastic! It just doesn't work for me.
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lunk
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Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:27 am Post

nom wrote:I can't imagine why I'd need to edit a document on my iPad while I had Scrivener open on my computer, so for me this is a moot point. But even allowing for the times when I might *want* to do it (such as last night when I created the test file I described), there is no need for me to import or export anything, I click the icon and sync is complete. That counts as sync for me.


My point was just that it's not automatic syncing, you have to remember to do it, manually, and for me that means that there is just a gradual difference between syncing with Documents/Textilus/whatever, and syncing with Index Card. Whether you call it syncing or import/export is to some degree just semantics. Scrivener, unfortunately, hasn't got an iOS app so it can't sync the way other apps do, apps that have both a OS X and an iOS app.

An example: Last night I suddenly got an idea, something I wanted to check, and I always keep my iPad by the bed, so I opened the synced rtf-file with Textilus, just to realize that unfortunately I hadn't remembered to manually sync before I closed my Mac earlier in the evening, so I couldn't do the thing I had meant to do.

I'm still desperately waiting for the iOS app. I've tried other similar software, but none can replace Scrivener, so I have to make do with these complementary iOS apps, among them Index Card.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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nom
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Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:21 am Post

lunk wrote:
nom wrote:I can't imagine why I'd need to edit a document on my iPad while I had Scrivener open on my computer, so for me this is a moot point. But even allowing for the times when I might *want* to do it (such as last night when I created the test file I described), there is no need for me to import or export anything, I click the icon and sync is complete. That counts as sync for me.


My point was just that it's not automatic syncing, you have to remember to do it, manually, and for me that means that there is just a gradual difference between syncing with Documents/Textilus/whatever, and syncing with Index Card. Whether you call it syncing or import/export is to some degree just semantics.

I can't agree with that statement. Import/export are specific actions that are different to sync. Sync adjusts content to match, whereas import/export adds content.

lunk wrote:Scrivener, unfortunately, hasn't got an iOS app so it can't sync the way other apps do, apps that have both a OS X and an iOS app.

Well, at least we agree on something. :wink:

lunk wrote:An example: Last night I suddenly got an idea, something I wanted to check, and I always keep my iPad by the bed, so I opened the synced rtf-file with Textilus, just to realize that unfortunately I hadn't remembered to manually sync before I closed my Mac earlier in the evening, so I couldn't do the thing I had meant to do.

OK, I'm confused by this. When you shut down (and start-up) Scrivener, it does automatically sync. It's only while you are using that it doesn't sync unless manually triggered. And as I said, it's hard to imagine a situation where I would *need* to access on another device a document that I was actively editing on my Mac.

lunk wrote:I'm still desperately waiting for the iOS app. I've tried other similar software, but none can replace Scrivener, so I have to make do with these complementary iOS apps, among them Index Card.

OK, so we agree on at least 2 things now... :D

UPDATE: I just remembered that the sync on start and quit is an option. Perhaps you have it unchecked?
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lunk
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Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:41 am Post

I usually don't quit and restart Scrivener, or my MBP. I just close the lid, and open it later. :)

So I have to remember to sync manually before closing the MBP.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:59 am Post

lunk wrote:I usually don't quit and restart Scrivener, or my MBP. I just close the lid, and open it later. :)

So I have to remember to sync manually before closing the MBP.


:shock: But that means you're not getting automatic backups either! :shock: _ :P
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sp
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Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:59 pm Post

As a temporary solution (before Scrivener for iOS arrives) I'm using Parallels Access. It's expensive (subscription service) but I already use it to access other apps from my laptop on my iPad – so thought I'd give it a go with Scrivener. It works very well. The Parallels Access app is cleverly designed so that Mac or Windows apps work on the iPad *almost* as if they were native iPad apps.

Some actions are more clunky of course. Some buttons a little fiddly. But as a short term (I hope) solution it works pretty well. Best of all you don't need to do any of that syncing nonsense and risk losing formatting etc. They do a free trial if you want to give it a go.

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Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:11 pm Post

nom wrote: :shock: But that means you're not getting automatic backups either! :shock: _ :P


Correct, but I have the backups on Time Machine, and sometimes I close Scrivener, and sometimes I do a save, before I do a major reshuffling of my text.

I'm used to Windows, where you have to save and backup everything manually all the time, so when I moved to Mac it felt very ... safe, I guess that's the best way to describe it. Everything seems to be made to minimize the risk of loosing anything, and so far so good. I never had any major breakdowns or data losses during the 40 years before I moved over to Mac, and I'll be very surprised if it happens now. :)
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

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Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:28 pm Post

I continue to encounter several issues while running IC4 under IOS 9.1. Among the most troublesome are:

(1) Disappearing Project and Card Title
(2) Changes to card colors are not saved
(3) Unreliable Sync w/Scrivener via Dropbox


Issues (1) and (2) are described below. Issue (3) is described in a subsequent post due to forum limitations on attachments per post. I’d be curious to learn whether others have encountered these or similar difficulties. Thanks.

(1) PROBLEM WITH DISAPPEARING PROJECT AND CARD TITLES

While choosing to edit the title of a project or title of a card the name of the project disappears from the list of projects or card title area as soon as I tap on the title to edit it with either the onscreen keyboard or a bluetooth keyboard.

The image below shows the screen as it appears upon selecting to edit the project title. Notice the project “Test” under the Name column heading.

IMG_0031.jpg
IMG_0031.jpg (332.18 KiB) Viewed 2784 times



The image below shows what occurs once I tap to edit “Test” while using the onscreen keyboard. Notice the name “Test” has disappeared. The same occurs when a bluetooth keyboard is in use.


IMG_0030.jpg
IMG_0030.jpg (310.32 KiB) Viewed 2784 times



Interestingly, any text entered under the name column does NOT appear on the screen, but once “done” is tapped the text is added to the title of the project. Notice the project title at the top center of the image below has been altered from Test. NONE of that text appeared while it was being entered.

IMG_0036.jpg
IMG_0036.jpg (375.12 KiB) Viewed 2784 times


An identical problem with disappearing text occurs while editing the title of index cards. But I noticed that this ONLY occurs following an attempt to edit the project title (weird, right?). Until an attempt is made to edit the project title changes to card titles works fine! Interestingly, closing and reopening the app restores the functionality of editing card titles, but does NOT restore functionality of editing project titles.

This has been reported to Dennis. He reports to be working on a fix.


(2) PROBLEM THAT CHANGES TO CARD COLORS ARE NOT SAVED.

I have further discovered that edits to card colors cannot be saved. Clicking the save button appears to save color changes only while the project remains open. Closing the project causes the colors to revert to default.

This has been reported to Dennis. He reports to be working on a fix.
Last edited by igregor on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.