Mavericks?

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marcoiac
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Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:32 pm Post

No, that's not true. Bing only? As a joke may work :)

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vic-k
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Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:51 pm Post

As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:01 pm Post

Here are links that explain the Bing situation: http://tinyurl.com/n3pjn2y
Siri voice search will use Bing, but you may be able to customize Safari search.
Google Search on the iOS already has excellent voice search.
I have installed Chrome and Google Search on the iPad and never use Safari.
Chrome is also the dominant browser on all PCs.
Which is doubtless why Apple is trying to juice up Safari.

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Jaysen
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Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:15 pm Post

It's beginning to look like Apple is trying to change the idea of "what we make" relative to brand identity. By defaulting to Bing they are in bed with their competitor in OS and productivity software. Relative to HW manufacturing, they are already showing their waning focus (any "real" innovation in the last two HW refresh cycles?). To me the last years of Apple's public posturing completely support Ioa-iffer's statement that they are nothing more than a brand.

That said, their "crap" is still my choice as it works better for me than the best stuff made by other companies.
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Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:32 pm Post

I think the announcements were good.

Real new products in the pipeline. I'd like to hear more about what they're doing with OS X, but the pro looks like a massive improvement over the old one even given the long wait and the IOS 7 redesign is a tour de force. Then some strut-your-stuff for fun: iWork in a browser? My, my!

Dave

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AmberV
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Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:26 pm Post

Let me defend my comment for the limited breadth of what I meant it to be aimed at. I did not mean to imply for instance the Louis Vuitton bags are poorly made and that the makers of them are interested in little more than the design of them. My comment is more on the emphasis of how the brand is marketed overall, and how it is seen and consumed by the public. That we have this kind of strutting around about fonts and superficial features at a developers conference, I think that says something about the overall portrayed culture of a company (though not necessarily its actual culture, I can only speculate on that). My comparison to the fashion industry was not to deride the quality of high fashion clothing (from what I understand, it’s quite good) and by comparison a waning in Apple’s underlying quality: my point was that the emphasis at Apple has become fashion, not hardware for professionals. Some will consider that a positive change for the digital realm, a necessary one, others will jump ship.

I happen to agree that for the most part the computer isn’t going to be a necessary piece of equipment for most of the people on Earth. It has been because there was nothing else, but these newer devices provide a better form factor and just-enough complexity to do what most people need. That’s fine, and it also doesn’t mean the computer is destined to die, it is still going to be a necessary component for the professional. I just have to rightly wonder how long Apple is going to stay in the game given that their OS releases have increasingly just become minor updates to the bundled software (battery life development aside it seems), and they are even publicly admitting now that they are siphoning development resources away from Mac OS X.

Apple has always been fashion conscious, but more in the way that BMW is: where design and engineering are on an equal footing, both in the design and the marketing.

Jaysen wrote:__________________________________________________________________________________________
By defaulting to Bing they are in bed with their competitor in OS and productivity software.


But of course, they’ve been doing that all along with Google, though originally it was not apparent they were competitors, there is no doubt about that now, and perhaps a greater competitor than Microsoft can dare to be called at this point. They are choosing what they see to be the lesser threat at this point: the tablet and mobile platform. That Microsoft still dominates the desktop and productivity scene is, I would say to them, of little concern.

As for Finder tabs, I still use the Finder the way it was designed to be used before it was hijacked by Microsoft design principles (which are so awkward they necessitate tabs):

Image
Don't Need No Stinkin' Tabs

:)

The Mac Pro is a different beast. I’ll say that for myself, I like both the design and, with a few exceptions, the overall capabilities of it. What concerns me with the design is that it decidedly isn’t built for the actual pro, like the older Mac Pro. Apple just needs to stop using “Pro” because they’ve lost what that means. The Retina machines are not, this new Mac “Pro” is not. Pros need big stack of expansion slots, lots of internal drives, optical drives, lots of device ports, upgradable components all plugged in to each other, not soldered in, etc. Just because the average consumer may no longer need that stuff doesn’t mean that the performance profile required to work in HD a/v and so on has magically gone away. If this is the future of Apple’s “Pro” attitude, then expect the a/v and high end 3d art community to continue drifting away from Apple, and this thing will be relegated to the status of the Cube in studios. Some geek will have one on his desk, but the real work will be done with the loud monsters under the desk.

That has a resonant impact on all of us, because while we may not need everything they need, or even a fraction of it, that Apple did cater to them meant we had access to a design ethic that included a gradient of hardware from basic consumer all the way up. Now that gradient is truncated, and it means less flexibility and less choice for all of us. We’re all packed into a narrower band with fewer choices both in the range of the platforms and the choices within those platforms. Again, not unlike the fashion industry.

To reiterate, the Mac Pro is a great machine for someone like me that still wants a static workstation without the miniaturisation cost that comes with the iMac and laptops (i.e. I’d rather pay a surcharge for high performance components that will last longer, than a surcharge for tiny components so that the case can be sexier). The problem is that it doesn’t address much above that level of usage. If people like me are defining the upper bar for what Apple is aiming at with their hardware, then they have severed off a huge chunk of the market.

So, for what the older Mac Pro was aimed at, the new one is not an improvement at all. It’s rather a replacement of that entire line with something that could be more adequately described as being “in between” the capabilities of the older machine and the iMac or the Mini. It’s the slim desktop we’ve been asking for, but we didn’t mean to have it at the exclusion of the high end machines. Oh well.
.:.
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Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:25 pm Post

dafu wrote:Then some strut-your-stuff for fun: iWork in a browser? My, my!Dave


I agree that was a surprise move, but again it follows the lead of Google, which has offered an online Drive and its components (Docs, Slides, Sheets, Forms, Drawings, etc) for some time now. Let's hope that the new iWork is half as versatile.

If Apple improves iCloud I will be pleased, since right now it's messy and inconsistent. When I try to update my Contacts, I often get a warning, "That operation could not be completed," meaning that synchronization failed.

As a safeguard, I checked the option to duplicate updates to Google Contacts. I'll bet that sort of cross-platform integration begins to vanish from OS X Mavericks. Once you work in a more open source environment, it's hard to enjoy locked-down proprietors.

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:25 am Post

AmberV wrote:The problem is that it doesn’t address much above that level of usage. If people like me are defining the upper bar for what Apple is aiming at with their hardware, then they have severed off a huge chunk of the market.


Well, there's much huffing and puffing going on in pro quarters but they aren't going to release this new machine for months . . . so . . .

And, 6 thunderbolt 2 ports is a whole lot of bandwidth, once everyone figures out what the specs really are, of course. Theoretically, you can chain up to 36 pieces of miscellaneous video & storage hardware off that thing. Dat's not shabby.

Dave

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AmberV
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:55 am Post

Right, theoretically this is true, and Thunderbolt is an exciting technology. We've yet to see it really take hold in the pro hardware scene. Perhaps something like this could help push it, if enough of the right kind of people get behind the device and if Apple does as well as they did with vendors and Firewire, back in the day. They've kind of boxed themselves into a corner with Thunderbolt so far---because the Mac Pro couldn't natively support it. Is it too late? Has eSATA and other interfaces become the good-enough solution in the years they've been sitting in the twilight zone on it? The bigger problem in my mind is the limited expandability of the core components themselves. Some fields need to stay on top of the best 3d cards available, and with the cards (good as they are right now) being soldered on, that's going to make this a hard pill to swallow. Part of the appeal of a heavy duty workstation is that nearly everything about it can be easily repaired and upgraded on-site. When you've got a whole office of these things working overtime (often 24 hours a day in rendering pools at load capacity), breakdowns are frequent and you can't afford to be shipping units out or taking them to repair centres for costly specialist treatment. Of course I'm speaking of the many small shops all over the world that get by with just enough. Hollywood is another matter. The issue is less what this thing can do now, or what it can do when it is released, but what it can do in two years. Right now it has some great specs, will those specs be top of the line in 2015? If not, it's either buy a new unit to replace one part, or never get it in the first place and stick with hardware that can be incrementally repaired and upgraded.

We'll have to see once it is more than a few pictures and an enthusiastic keynote segment, but it really seems to me they've cut out a product line by making a new one here. A welcome new one, for sure, and personally I think it's a beautiful machine; it is one for the MoMA for sure. It is heartening to see any technology vendor putting so much effort into a static workstation these days, with all of the "PC is dead" talk. I don't mean to come down on it, I'm just concerned that the word "Pro" seems to be more and more out of touch with reality as time goes by.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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nom
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:34 am Post

homeport wrote:Is that correct you have no option other then Bing for search browser, what about safari only I spent half my life getting Bing off this computer after the upgrade to windows 8 so that would stop me from buying a mac air


No, not true. The only mention of Bing was in relation to Siri in iOS. Siri searches via Bing, but iOS Safari still uses Google.

If you visit the Apple webpage for Safari in OS X Mavericks, it clearly shows the search bar using Google.
Complete and utter NOMsense.
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xiamenese
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:57 am Post

Does Siri only use Bing so that she can cherry-pick the results she likes? :twisted:

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nom
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:02 am Post

AmberV,

I don't understand your defence of your Louis Vuitton analogy, so suspect that I was unclear in my earlier post. I did not interpret your comments to suggest that Louis Vuitton (and other luxury brands) were poorly made. Indeed, intrinsic to my understanding of your comments was that they are well made luxury products that convey status and prestigious. And hence, to my mind, this is why the analogy fails. It was why I mentioned my comparison of the price of Macs to equivalently specced machines from other brands. Since the price discrepancy vanished (even though the comparison of build quality didn't) then Apple products were in the same price bracket as "regular" brands, unlike Louis Vuitton. "Normal" people buy Apple, not just the wealthy.

Which is why I used my parents as an example, since they are definitely(!) not "luxury" people. Far from viewing Apple products as luxuries, to them Apple represents reliability, usability and value for money - far more pragmatic buying rationale than brand prestige.
Complete and utter NOMsense.
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nom
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:04 am Post

xiamenese wrote:Does Siri only use Bing so that she can cherry-pick the results she likes? :twisted:

Mr X


Probably, she's such a minx. But don't let on to vic-k, we'll never hear the end of it if he starts talking to Siri…
Complete and utter NOMsense.
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Jaysen
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:01 pm Post

nom wrote:
xiamenese wrote:Does Siri only use Bing so that she can cherry-pick the results she likes? :twisted:

Mr X


Probably, she's such a minx. But don't let on to vic-k, we'll never hear the end of it if he starts talking to Siri…

We should start at 3 word story titled "Vic-k and Siri Converse"
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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Fluff
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Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:42 pm Post

Oh Please! Please! Please! There is no place in His Obnoxiousness' life for Siri. Life around him is problematic enough as it is.
Fluff
"It understands what you say. And knows what you mean.
Talk to Siri as you would to a person. Say something like “Tell my wife I’m running late” or “Remind me to call the vet”. Siri not only understands what you say, it’s smart enough to know what you mean. So when you ask “Any good sushi round here?” Siri will reply “I found a number of sushi restaurants near you.” Then you can say “Hmm. What about pizza?” Siri remembers that you just asked about restaurants, so it will look for Italian restaurants in the area. And Siri is proactive, so it will question you until it finds what you’re looking for."
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