I know you are, but what am I?

Pr
Prometheus
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:07 pm
Platform: Windows

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:03 pm Post

jesuslpgc wrote:To the original poster: If something becomes a liability just let it go.



I'm not implying that you're being mean, or anything like that, only that by worrying by betas, release dates etc, you're not being productive, you're not writing.


Agree with the first, but why is it that people here just insist anyone is a bad or occasional or shitty writer if they dare post their frustrations? You don't know squat about anyone else's writing. My god the self-righteousness and arrogance in pretending that you do. I cannot fathom how L&L allow this forum to be hostile to even the whiff of criticism of their product that has been delayed for YEARS.

Ma
MadFable
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:33 am
Platform: Windows

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:06 pm Post

As someone else who has also been waiting for the windows v3, I completely understand your feelings on this. Do know that your not alone. It is a known issue, however there is not much we can do. We are not a priority, or at least that's the impression. I am starting to see writing review sites mentioning Scriveners apparent distaste for the windows community, which was shocking as it always held in extreme high esteem.

So I guess the take-away of my message is, We know, Others know. Word is spreading beyond these forums now. Perhaps if we are lucky it'll make a difference.

Am
Amcmo

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:09 pm Post

Fortunately, I don't have to deal with cross-platform things between Mac and Windows as you do. I went back to ywriter and word, because this year, I don't have the time to screw around with betas any longer. I cut L&L loose, which I think is a shame, because I do like the product. The attitude here, I can do without. And, the product, I can also do without.


If you’ve ‘cut L&L loose’, why are you still here slagging them, reasonable defenders of the team, and the beta?

The beta has been working just fine for months now, some types of compile aside. You’ve made a decision to accept a far less capable solution, which is your right.

As for responses like, ‘read the thread’, to me that is logical. Why go off on a diatribe when the question has been asked and answered many times?

As for complaining about the attitude of members of the forum, when some posters attack L&L and the 2 developers those more reasonable posters have every right to defend the product and L&L and call the attackers on their abuse or just plain wrong opinions. The number of armchair development ‘experts’ here who profess to know how to develop V3 Win in weeks if not days is amazing, as is the expectation by some that these ‘experts’ should be able to post drivel without robust response.

Seems those who complain the most want the right to insult, make unreasonable demands and expect everyone else to shut up and take it. It doesn't work that way.

As for your comment about being called a bad or shitty writer, Seems if such comment was made it would be a one-off. The vast majority of responses have been in reasonable defence of the beta and L&L, with others explaining the fallacy of claims made and insults thrown. The real vitriol has come from certain posters calling L&L and developers incompetent, uncaring, demanding consequences, firings, the list is long.

You’ve complained about the ‘attitude here’. I’ve done a quick search of your previous posts and........

Anyhoo, enjoy the alternatives you’ve settled for. Reminding you, you’ve ‘cut L&L loose. Does that now include the forum? Shame in some ways as some of your actual posts on user questions were helpful, but I guess.......

When you do return to using the best long firm writing program, i.e. Scrivener, you’ll still find the same helpful forum members (and L&L team ) ready to assist with your questions. (oh and call you on any diatribes) :lol: :lol:

Am
Amcmo

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:25 pm Post

MadFable wrote:As someone else who has also been waiting for the windows v3, I completely understand your feelings on this. Do know that your not alone. It is a known issue, however there is not much we can do. We are not a priority, or at least that's the impression. I am starting to see writing review sites mentioning Scriveners apparent distaste for the windows community, which was shocking as it always held in extreme high esteem.

So I guess the take-away of my message is, We know, Others know. Word is spreading beyond these forums now. Perhaps if we are lucky it'll make a difference.


I’ve seen one ‘review site’ where the comment was made completely out of context and as a point scoring exercise on the part of the poster.

There is NOTHING to support the claim of distaste for the Windows community. There are double the number of developers for Win, a free open beta, a promise of a free upgrade for all purchasers after Nov 2017. That sounds damned supportive of Windows users to me.

Unfortunately the internet allows uninformed or intentionally deceptive claims (with the expectation that no one should push back on those claims.)

We’re within weeks of a release (I hope) FFS.

Why not contribute to bouncing the remaining bugs instead of making unsupportable claims?

Positive contributions release endorphins and other nice things, making for a happier writer (and forum). :lol: :lol: :lol:

Am
Amcmo

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:28 pm Post

I cannot fathom how L&L allow this forum to be hostile to even the whiff of criticism of their product that has been delayed for YEARS


In development, not 'delayed'.

'Hostile'? - How about this -
The phrase "developed by clowns, supervised by monkeys" comes to mind because, clearly, they have zero idea of what they are doing.
- You were saying? I think reasonable forums members have every right to push back against that crap.

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:05 pm Post

Prometheus wrote:
jesuslpgc wrote:To the original poster: If something becomes a liability just let it go.



I'm not implying that you're being mean, or anything like that, only that by worrying by betas, release dates etc, you're not being productive, you're not writing.


Agree with the first, but why is it that people here just insist anyone is a bad or occasional or shitty writer if they dare post their frustrations? You don't know squat about anyone else's writing. My god the self-righteousness and arrogance in pretending that you do. I cannot fathom how L&L allow this forum to be hostile to even the whiff of criticism of their product that has been delayed for YEARS.


I'm very much afraid there's been a communication breakdown here. I was not accusing you of anything, but stating a truism, that if someone spends his time worrying about betas, release dates, etc, will obviously leave him with little time to worry about writing and being productive. Sorry if the way I expressed myself made me sound as though I was attacking you or making assumptions about you or anybody else.

However I stand by my words, I have criticized, demanded consequences, and what not, like many others.... with no results. Version 3 for windows has not moved forward a single inch. If anything perhaps I have wasted a precious time I could've spent writing worrying about things over I had no control whatsoever.

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kewms
Posts: 6257
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:16 pm Post

jesuslpgc wrote:Version 3 for windows has not moved forward a single inch.


This is false, as the list of changes in the subsequent beta releases demonstrates.

You're correct, though, in that the progress that has been made is in spite of, not because of, howls of outrage from forum participants.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

je
jesuslpgc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:48 pm
Platform: Mac

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:21 pm Post

kewms wrote:
jesuslpgc wrote:Version 3 for windows has not moved forward a single inch.


This is false, as the list of changes in the subsequent beta releases demonstrates.

You're correct, though, in that the progress that has been made is in spite of, not because of, howls of outrage from forum participants.

Katherine

Of course, I was referring to the release date. You're right that I should've been more explicit being such a delicate subject. I stand corrected. My apologies.

User avatar
Daniela Wolfe
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:53 pm
Platform: Linux + Windows
Location: Utah

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:32 pm Post

MadFable wrote:As someone else who has also been waiting for the windows v3, I completely understand your feelings on this. Do know that your not alone. It is a known issue, however there is not much we can do. We are not a priority, or at least that's the impression. I am starting to see writing review sites mentioning Scriveners apparent distaste for the windows community, which was shocking as it always held in extreme high esteem.

So I guess the take-away of my message is, We know, Others know. Word is spreading beyond these forums now. Perhaps if we are lucky it'll make a difference.

Just because they've had set back with development doesn't mean they have distaste for the Windows community. There are a lot of developers who outright refuse to develop for Windows just because they dislike developing on the platform. If Keith really disliked Windows so much, he wouldn't have allowed development on the Windows platform to begin with.They had to build Scriv 3 for Windows from the ground up and make it look and behave like the Mac version which is no small task.

Keith is the sole developer for both the Mac and iOS version whereas the Windows version gets 2 developers by itself. I don't believe that they would throw more developers into the windows version if they didn't see it as a priority.
Have a deliciously demented day,

Image

Am
Amcmo

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:48 pm Post

kewms wrote:
jesuslpgc wrote:Version 3 for windows has not moved forward a single inch.


This is false, as the list of changes in the subsequent beta releases demonstrates.

You're correct, though, in that the progress that has been made is in spite of, not because of, howls of outrage from forum participants.

Katherine


Yes!!!! Very well put!

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theswede
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 10:55 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:11 pm Post

MadFable wrote:Perhaps if we are lucky it'll make a difference.


You honestly and truly believe that L&L are sitting on their hands, not wanting to release a Windows 3 version, and deliberately eschewing income, making people upset, and having articles written about how they just keep working on Scrivener 3 and it's not yet done, after years of work?

And you believe that they will just realize that is a bad idea, and change... something, not sure what, in response to enough whining?

Truly? You believe this? You hold this hope that enough people being sad will make L&L relent and release Version 3, which they otherwise... what, would not do?

I stand in awe of L&L not just locking down all customer forums at times. This is one such time.
Jesper Anderson SA5NEO
Computer scientist. Software engineer. Scifi writer. Scuba diver.

Sp
Spirantz

Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:43 pm Post

Amcmo wrote:
Fortunately, I don't have to deal with cross-platform things between Mac and Windows as you do. I went back to ywriter and word, because this year, I don't have the time to screw around with betas any longer. I cut L&L loose, which I think is a shame, because I do like the product. The attitude here, I can do without. And, the product, I can also do without.


If you’ve ‘cut L&L loose’, why are you still here slagging them, reasonable defenders of the team, and the beta?



I completely agree with the original poster. And from what I've seen in just an hour of lurking and reading a few things, you, Amcmo, are popping up an awful lot. You are openly hostile to anyone who is upset with the lack of progress and promises made by L&L regarding the next version. You're creating an incredibly hostile environment for anyone who is not 100% happy with their product promises. Your fanboy defense of L&L is toxic. You need to stop.

If you're actually a developer, you don't seem to have any regard or respect for customers.
If you're not a developer, stop posing. You're missing fundamental knowledge on respecting those you rely on.

Yes, Scrivener is nice software. No, they do not need you to defend them. At this point they just need to A - Hurry up and reallocate resources to finish this INCREDIBLY long overdue product, or B - give up their dream of being cross-platform and throw in the towel; they're obviously not large enough a company to realize this goal in a reasonable timeline.

There's a lot of unhappy people at this point that cannot be ignored. Their reputation for reliability is dropping, despite you as an individual not having any troubles. Please be more compassionate to others.

Stay safe and healthy, everyone.

User avatar
theswede
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 10:55 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS

Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:45 pm Post

Spirantz wrote:they're obviously not large enough a company to realize this goal in a reasonable timeline.


They have a working, stable multi-platform solution OUT NOW. If that timeline is not reasonable enough for you, you've got very special demands, that luckily are not shared by most people.

Spirantz wrote:There's a lot of unhappy people at this point that cannot be ignored.


And who is ignoring them?
Jesper Anderson SA5NEO
Computer scientist. Software engineer. Scifi writer. Scuba diver.

Am
Amcmo

Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:21 am Post

You are openly hostile to anyone who is upset with the lack of progress and promises made by L&L regarding the next version. You're creating an incredibly hostile environment for anyone who is not 100% happy with their product promises. Your fanboy defense of L&L is toxic. You need to stop.

If you're actually a developer, you don't seem to have any regard or respect for customers.
If you're not a developer, stop posing. You're missing fundamental knowledge on respecting those you rely on.

Yes, Scrivener is nice software. No, they do not need you to defend them. At this point they just need to A - Hurry up and reallocate resources to finish this INCREDIBLY long overdue product, or B - give up their dream of being cross-platform and throw in the towel; they're obviously not large enough a company to realize this goal in a reasonable timeline.

There's a lot of unhappy people at this point that cannot be ignored. Their reputation for reliability is dropping, despite you as an individual not having any troubles.


Thanks for the very targeted attack.

The incredibly ‘toxic’, hostile environment has been created by a very few (not a ‘lot of unhappy people’ ) who, like you have attacked L&L, their staff, demanded people get sacked, displayed an entitlement attitude.

You don’t like me defending L&L, well, stiff.... that’s who I am.

What you and one or two others seem to be incapable of grasping is despite an enormous challenge, L&L are incredibly close to releasing an amazing product, despite all the threats, harassment, pure spite from a very small number of posters. Why the F.. would they give up on V3 for Win on the final lap.

L&L team, if you agree with this poster’s claims that I am the one responsible for the toxic environment feel free to delete my forum account. It won’t change my attitude to L&L or Scrivener in the least.

I have great respect for the team’s achievements and I’m not about to make dumb threats to go elsewhere. :lol:

Wild suggestion L&L team, just release V3 as it is, collect $ from those of us that purchased before Nov 2017 and finally get some recompense for all the hard work.

I’m betting having that full release version # on it will shut up those very few vocal complainers. It seems the version number is all they hang their whinging on :lol:

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pigfender
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Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:29 am Post

Do you know what's EVEN BETTER than arguing on the internet?

Coming together on the internet...

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http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
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