THE FATE OF EMPIRES and SEARCH FOR SURVIVAL

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Orpheus
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Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:39 am Post

https://www.webcitation.org/6a8z7Lvfj?u ... /glubb.pdf

A short study of cycles in world history. Much of what we are experiencing today happened before and will happen again.

Excerpt

Another outward change which invariably
marks the transition from the Age of
Conquests to the Age of Affluence is the
spread of defensiveness. The nation, immen-
sely rich, is no longer interested in glory or
duty, but is only anxious to retain its wealth
and its luxury. It is a period of defensiveness,
from the Great Wall of China, to Hadrian’s
Wall on the Scottish Border, to the Maginot
Line in France in 1939.

Money being in better supply than courage,
subsidies instead of weapons are employed
to buy off enemies. To justify this departure
from ancient tradition, the human mind
easily devises its own justification. Military
readiness, or aggressiveness, is denounced as
primitive and immoral. Civilized peoples are
too proud to fight. The conquest of one
nation by another is declared to be immoral.
Empires are wicked. This intellectual device
enables us to suppress our feeling of
inferiority, when we read of the heroism of
our ancestors, and then ruefully contemplate
our position today. ‘It is not that we are
afraid to fight,’ we say, ‘but we should
consider it immoral.’ This even enables us to
assume an attitude of moral superiority.

The weakness of pacifism is that there are
still many peoples in the world who are
aggressive. Nations who proclaim themselves
unwilling to fight are liable to be conquered
by peoples in the stage of militarism—
perhaps even to see themselves incorporated
into some new empire, with the status of
mere provinces or colonies.

When to be prepared to use force and when
to give way is a perpetual human problem,
which can only be solved, as best we can, in
each successive situation as it arises. In fact,
however, history seems to indicate that great
nations do not normally disarm from
motives of conscience, but owing to the
weakening of a sense of duty in the citizens,
and the increase in selfishness and the desire
for wealth and ease.

continue at

https://www.webcitation.org/6a8z7Lvfj?u ... /glubb.pdf
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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vic-k
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Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:01 pm Post

In my copy of The Fate of Empires, it on page 24, but if you're using the link, go to page 15, XXIV The Arab Decline. I read it three times, just to be sure I wasn't imagining it or misreading it. It's truly amazing. :shock: :)
Vic
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Orpheus
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Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:25 am Post

vic-k wrote:In my copy of The Fate of Empires, it on page 24, but if you're using the link, go to page 15, XXIV The Arab Decline. I read it three times, just to be sure I wasn't imagining it or misreading it. It's truly amazing. :shock: :)
Vic


It was mind boggling to read. Even Glubb couldn't believe what he reading in the 10th century Arab chronicles; full on feminism in the midst of a Muslim civilization! Who would believe such a thing today? But that seems to be a pattern noticed by others as well. In JD Unwin's "Sex and Culture" starting on page 379

https://archive.org/details/b20442580

he details several ancient civilizations (Sumeria, Babylon, Athens, Rome, etc) where the same thing happened. Feminism is not at all new, rather female emancipation is symptomatic of the decline and fall of that culture. And that once feminism by whatever name starts it is irreversible and no turning back until the host culture dies and is taken over by a male dominated society. When feminism sets in the society rots from the inside and then crumbles when it encounters an external challenge. Toynbee put it well "Civilizations are not murdered; they commit suicide."
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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vic-k
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Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:12 pm Post

Orpheus wrote:And that once feminism by whatever name starts it is irreversible and no turning back until the host culture dies and is taken over by a male dominated society. When feminism sets in the society rots from the inside and then crumbles when it encounters an external challenge

So wot y' sayin', is "Tyrants Rule OK ... and screw the Philosopher Kings". :? And I don't mean these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXAid5QWss

Mind you, tyrants can bring the walls tumbling down, too, y' know. :cry:
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Orpheus
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Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:47 am Post

vic-k wrote:
Orpheus wrote:And that once feminism by whatever name starts it is irreversible and no turning back until the host culture dies and is taken over by a male dominated society. When feminism sets in the society rots from the inside and then crumbles when it encounters an external challenge

So wot y' sayin', is "Tyrants Rule OK ... and screw the Philosopher Kings". :? And I don't mean these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXAid5QWss

Mind you, tyrants can bring the walls tumbling down, too, y' know. :cry:


Toynbee put it this way "civilizations aren't murdered; they commit suicide."
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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Orpheus
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Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:17 am Post

vic-k wrote:In my copy of The Fate of Empires, it on page 24, but if you're using the link, go to page 15, XXIV The Arab Decline. I read it three times, just to be sure I wasn't imagining it or misreading it. It's truly amazing. :shock: :)
Vic



Complimentary to Glubb's essay and written well before it is a book by JD Unwin called Sex and Culture the interesting historical part starts on page 379. You can get the book here https://archive.org/details/b20442580/page/378

Rather than explain what it is about I shall quote someone else's description:

I just read an incredible book called "Sex and Culture" by J. D. Unwin published in 1934. The book analyzes 80 primitive cultures (anthropology) and a number of past empires (history) and finds that, without exception, the level of advancement or decline of all cultures is directly tied to the level of regulation of female sexuality. His historical examples include the Sumerians, Babylonians, Athenians, Romans, Teutons, and Anglo-Saxons (600s - 900s), and English (1500s - 1900s). In every example, these cultures began to rise when women were required to be virgins at marriage and to be monogamous for life. All of these cultures began to decline when women were given rights, were not required to be virgins at marriage, when divorce was common, and marriage was in decline.

This book makes me feel ridiculous for thinking that we are facing some new problem with feminism. We are just repeating history, that has been repeated over and over again. I knew that late Rome had some of these issues, but I didn't know how universal it was. For example, in late Babylonia, they had alimony, child support, no-fault divorce, marital rape laws, and economic equal rights for women. Soon after, this empire, that had lasted hundreds of years, collapsed. All of these successful cultures had begun at the opposite extreme, almost beyond modern imagination, with no rights for women. For example, the punishment for adultery among the early Anglo-Saxons was that adulterous wife was killed and the guilty man had to buy a new wife for the harmed husband. The European middle ages were a result of sexual decadence and the gradual rise of Europe starting in the 1600s was the result of gradually increasing regulation of women, largely caused by Christianity. http://tinyurl.com/y9x2xp8f


What he fails to mention is that as Unwin points out that once started feminism (or whatever name you want to call it), is unstoppable. It continues till the host society dies and is taken over by a male dominated society and then the cycle repeats itself. One of the main effects is decline in birth rates - leading to all kinds of social upheaval.
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:55 pm Post

And what is the key? What will be further?

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Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:36 pm Post

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in a dying culture.
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Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:55 pm Post

Correlation* is not causation.

*(and I’m not even convinced of the correlation)
Complete and utter NOMsense.
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Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:47 pm Post

nom wrote:Correlation* is not causation.

As proved by one of my favourite websites: Spurious Correlations
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Orpheus
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Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:17 pm Post

Silverdragon wrote:All I can say is that I'm glad I live in a dying culture.


Unfortunately the death of a culture is not a bloodless affair.
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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Orpheus
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Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:19 pm Post

nom wrote:Correlation* is not causation.

*(and I’m not even convinced of the correlation)


Unfortunately this is not something that you can do a double blind test on.
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:28 pm Post

Orpheus wrote:
nom wrote:Correlation* is not causation.

*(and I’m not even convinced of the correlation)


Unfortunately this is not something that you can do a double blind test on.


Physics, like history, manages OK without double blind placebo control experiments and the same simple rule applies equally to them both: correlation is not causation*,


*We can only see the stars when the sun goes down and yet—despite this compelling evidence—the rotation of the Earth does not create the stars.

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Orpheus
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Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:22 pm Post

nom wrote:
Orpheus wrote:
nom wrote:Correlation* is not causation.

*(and I’m not even convinced of the correlation)


Unfortunately this is not something that you can do a double blind test on.


Physics, like history, manages OK without double blind placebo control experiments and the same simple rule applies equally to them both: correlation is not causation*,


*We can only see the stars when the sun goes down and yet—despite this compelling evidence—the rotation of the Earth does not create the stars.



Then why do historians says "History repeats itself?"

And that the only thing that history teaches us is that no one learns anything from history? :wink:

Maybe that is why the Devil's Dictionary defines history as: one damned thing after another.
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit

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Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:16 pm Post

Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now.

Arnold J. Toynbee.


https://www.britannica.com/biography/Arnold-Joseph-Toynbee
"If you lose your wealth you have lost nothing. If you lose your health you have lost something. But, if you lose your character you have lost everything." Chanakya Pandit