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Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:41 pm Post

Heh heh, it's been in there for a few months, I thought now was a good time to proffer some hints. :) You are the first!

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Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:04 pm Post

KB wrote:Heh heh, it's been in there for a few months, I thought now was a good time to proffer some hints. :) You are the first!

My lips are sealed. Let others find it for themselves. :-)

I will say "very tricky" of you....

Wow. I was the first?

The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

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Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:29 pm Post

Kieth wrote: You are the first!
:lol: :lol: :lol: the virgin`s lament :oops:
give us a break!! how many times have we heard that one!! It`s as bad as `The cheque`s in the post`

Birdbrain wrote:
Wow. I was the first?

The bird `ll believe anything!!
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:17 pm Post

A bird in the bush is as good as ........ :oops:
The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:32 pm Post

As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:20 pm Post

"Contentment, is a warm sty for the eaters and the sleepers."
Eugene O'Neil
"She watched him turn and walk out of the park, and she wondered about him all of the rest of the day, this strange man with the intense look, who stood in the middle of the park, in love with it."

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Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:26 pm Post

Never give up, never surrender! - Galaxy Quest :D

And the Churchill quote we all know and love (in all its full-length glory):

Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. - Winston Churchill, from an address given at Harrow School, Oct 29, 1941.


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Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:45 pm Post

Hah!.jpg (22.84 KiB) Viewed 1708 times

I found it too, ha! So clever! Then I figure out how to capture the darn thing so I could prove it! :lol:


Not only the mind but the body needs dreams. And if this is true of the body, how much more so of the spirit, or the soul?
-Elie Wiesel

The truth is kept secret
Swept under the rug
If you never know truth
Then you never know love…
-Black-Eyed Peas, “Where is the Love”

Faith is not a question of the existence or the non-existence of God. It is believing that love without reward is valuable.
-Emmanuel Levinas
Inspiration is for amateurs...the rest of us just show up.
-Chuck Close

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Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:26 pm Post

"Act as if it was impossible to fail!" Dorothea Brande

“Follow your bliss and the universe will open doors for you where there were only walls.” Joseph Campbell

"It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure." Joseph Campbell

"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us. The old skin has to be shed before the new one can come." Joseph Campbell

"You can't change other people, but you can be the change you wish to see" Gandhi

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." Einstein

"If you hear a voice within you say you cannot paint, then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced." Vincent Van Gogh

"I'm not my personality. I'm the one that can invent and reinvent my personality".

"It's never to late to be, what you might have been" George Eliot

"Men do not attract that which they want, buth that which they are." James Allen

"Create beauty, the rest will follow".

"When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself." Earl Nightingale

"Begin and half is done. Begin again and you have finished" Marcus Aurelius

"Silence is the language God speaks and everything else is a bad translation." John B. O’Reilly

"What it is that stands higher than words? Action. What is it that stands higher than action? Silence." St. Francis of Assisi

"Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10

"History is one damn thing after another." Arnold Toynbee

"Our misconceptions involve the passive fallacy and notion that consciousness is a plane mirror that cannot lie about the world it reflects." Colin Wilson

"The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep." Woody Allen

"A billion here, a billion there - pretty soon it adds up to real money." Bill Gates

"Always try to be a little kinder than is necessary." James Barrie

"If we do not succeed, then we face the risk of failure." Dan Quayle

"No self, no suffering." Zen Master

"It is the thoughtlife that pollutes" Jesus

"I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room." Blaise Pascal

If there's something I can't stand, it's a person who talks while I'm interrupting. Groucho Marx

"War is good business." George W Bush

"Wisdom and foolishness are practically the same. Both are indifferent to the opinions of the world." Joseph Campbell

"I have found that you have only to take that one step toward the gods, and they will then take ten steps toward you. That step, the heroic first step of the journey, is out of, or over the edge of your boundaries, and it often must be taken before you know that you will." Joseph Campbell
Last edited by bobueland on Tue May 06, 2008 8:54 pm, edited 20 times in total.
Don't be a sissy, don't be a snob. Post a reply to Ueland Bob.

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Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:45 pm Post

COngrats Alexwein!

You are Second (Silver)

I find this quote from the man that "invented the internet" very humorous.

Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are...

former Vice President Al Gore
(now, chairman and co-founder of Generation Investment Management--
a London-based business that sells carbon credits)
The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

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Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:41 pm Post

Wock wrote:I find this quote from the man that "invented the internet" very humorous.

That's the oldest false story about Al Gore on the Internet.
See http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

As for the other point, are you suggesting that he falsified his presentations?
He was trying to get public attention, never easy in this day and age.
It worked. And a big chunk of Antarctic ice shelf broke loose recently.
Not even the scientists know how dangerous global warming is, or how fast it's coming.
Only that it definitely is underway. We owe Gore some thanks for waking us up.

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Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:48 pm Post

Yes, Al Gore has become an American hero. He is doing much better and more valuable work on his own than he could have as president (well, maybe :-). He has survived an amazing amount of vilification.

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Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:55 pm Post

Verbatim in an interview with Wolf Blitzer of Cable News Network
March 9, 1999 during CNN's "Late Edition" show
GORE: Well, I will be offering - I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.
But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

Myself, I do not View Al Gore as a hero but more as a "sahdy salesman".

My reasons are simple.

(1) He is pushing for a cap-and-trade system of policy in America. He states that this of course will reduce pollution.

That is the key problem I have. It will not reduce "pollution" but rather open a venue to make pollution "profitable".

See the cap and trade system will cap all emissions to a certain level unless one "purchases" carbon chips.
The "cap" is set at 1000 units of CO2 per year for each power plant. Power plant A is nuclear so it only emit 500 units a year. It then has 500 units it can "trade" on an open market to make a profit. This is the motive to be a clean company because you can "sell" the CO2 you didn't emit.

But lets say Power Company Wock owns 2 power plants. 1 Nuclear and 1 Coal. My Nuclear plant only emits 500 units per year so I have a 500 surplus. But my coal power plant (power plant B) emits 1300 units per year. Since the cap is 1000 I need to "purchase" 300 units of pollution. Since I have a surplus of 500 I "sell" 300 units to my coal plant and the trade the 200 I have left over on the market for a smaller profit. This is the "motive" once again to go green. The cleaner your output the more profit you can make selling surplus chips. But there is a fatal flaw in the idea.
The flaw is that Electricity is a commodity people will not go without and many people do not have a choice with who provides there electricity. You either pay what you power companies rates are or you have no electricity. You are not empowered to punish the polluters by choosing another company but rather you become the funder for the polluters because they pass the cost onto you the consumer. They will do this to the point where the market cannot handle it.

Now does it reduce emissions? Some. But does it reduce them enough to stall or reverse Man Made Global warming? No.

The results will be this. The energy companies will still emit the smae amount of C02 they are currently emitting but now if the cap and trade system is fully implemented they now have room to make a larger profit of their waste products and will have the consumer foot the bill for any retrofitting or changes made which they won't do until their profit margin would increase higher than the market costs can afford.

Now step in Al Gore.
AL Gore has started a company that does what? They buy these carbon chips and then hold onto them. They say this helps the environment because by holding onto them they create a "shortage" for pullution units (Co2) so the price of each unit increases due to the shortage. He then sells them back to the HEAVIEST polluters who need these chips in order to keep their power plants online. He makes a large profit because he is a third party that is influencing supply and demand for the cap and trade system.

Now in the end the same amount of emissions will still be put into the atmosphere because there is already a set number of units in the Cap system. But what has happened is third party investors will make more money of the trading of these chips back to the energy companies. The energy companies raise their prices and pass the cost onto the consumer.

Look at Oil Prices right now. They are over $100 a barrel but demand even with China and India Factored in the cost should only be about $78 a barrel. Why the large increase in price? Third party investors like hedge funds and retirement funds have dumped billions into oil raising the demand out to almost 3 months and driving the price up because they "hoard" the oil by demand and thus increasing the price of oil to over $100 a barrel.

Who feels the pain? The consumer. Everything increases in price due to the "investements" in oil and what is truly sad is the major oil companies get tax incentives and rebates (in america) paid for by the taxpayer. If the same is done with Electricity you can imagine the burden the average person will have to carry and little will still be done about the environment.

Are there better ways? Yes
One would be to open a competitive market for energy companies. One where a consumer can have choices of who to buy their electricity from. The policy should be that the energy companies must report to their customers twice a year on their total amount of emissions and EXACTLY what pollutants they are emmiting. Also they should report any money they have contributed towards "Green Research. Examples would be money donated to research in alternative fuel sources such solar, wind, hydroelectric, hydrogen, biofuels, etc. Money spent on emissions reductions and safety, or even things like replanting forests, environmental research, etc.

That way the consumer could compare what energy companies are doing to actually help the environment and make a decision based on three main things.
The cost of the electricty.
The amount of ALL pollutants they emit in a year.
And how much they are trying to help the environment.

This would cause the energy companies to be more competitive and would force them by the consumer choice to make better decisions in their profit investments and how they impact the environment.

Buying and selling carbon chips is not the best answer to emission reduction and truly scares me because of one major factor.

It puts too much focus on CO2 as the prime enemy and draws the limelight away from other more harmful pollutants such as MERCURY or NiTROGEN.
Nitrogen used in fertilizer increases "Green House Gases" extremely. As more people plant crops to create Biofuel they increase the amount of Nitrogen in the atmosphere and increase the "man made" global warming problem. So climate wise we are using a better fuel but our impact on the environment is actually worse than it was before.

Another thing about Biofuels is a main resource it would be more damaging than good. It consumes large quantities of water to manufacturer Biofuel and this causes our "water footprint" to drastically increase. This problem has already arisen and is being looked into by scientists now. The next threat is actually our water consumption.

Because of the "panic" that Al Gore infused into the people demand for Biofuel has risen extremely and thus is depositing more nitrogen in to the air, using much more water than we previously used and is leading to get rich quick schemes like


This scam is not illegal but is crippling the European Market for Biofuel. It makes me very sad that people are taking advantage of American Policies that were intended to be an incentive towards alternate energy are now being taking advantage of due to the high demand of biofuel that has been fueled by "panic" induced by the IPCC and Al Gore.

I do not like Al Gore nor do I like what he has done for the environment.
He has over-represented facts and turned them into fiction leading into further skepticism. He has taken advantage of his position and maneuvered himself into a position to make BILLIONS in profits if a Cap and Trade system
He is doing a 300 MILLION dollar marketing campaign in America to market this idea to the american public in hopes that the american public will rally and demand policy be made. The policy that would make Al Gore's company billions in profits and would end up raising the price of electricity for most homeowners and WITHOOUT making a substantial impact on emissions and their effect on the environment.

Al Gore has doe this before through his wife. Enter the PMRC (Parents Music Resource Center) or those in the music industry like to say (Parents and Mothers against Rock Concerts).

The idea of Explicit Lyrics label was good and was needed but the original intent of the PMRC was horrid to say the least. They wished for a Government Controlled and Censorship of material produced by artists, epsecially any fitting in the Rock, Heavy Metal, and Punk Genres. They felt it was the Government that should decide what the public was allowed to listen to and what artist would be allowed to create.

The PMRC was meant to do damage to record sales of the artist who made the songs with explicit lyrics
The PMRC claimed that the change in rock music was attributable to the decay of the nuclear family in America.[1] Gore asserted that families are "haven[s] of moral stability" which protect children from outside influence, and that without the family structure rock music was "infecting the youth of the world with messages they cannot handle."
Additional suggestions from the PMRC that appeared in an article in the Washington Post included: printing warnings and lyrics on album covers, forcing record stores to put albums with explicit covers under the counters, pressuring television stations not to broadcast explicit songs or videos, "reassess[ing]" the contracts of musicians who performed violently or sexually in concert, and creating a panel to set industry standards. This article led to the removal of rock music and magazines from American stores including Wal-Mart, J.C. Penney, Sears, and Fred Meyer.

This also led to many frivolous lawsuits like the on against Judas Priest where the mother and father of a boy who committed suicide wanted compensation from the band because the boy was listening to one of their songs when he committed suicide. No it wasn't that it was a case of "bad parenting" rather it was a case of "The devil made him do it and the devil is Rock Music!"

Of course over the years the hype of the PMRC has pretty much died but it was Al Gore that approached the US Government in hopes for the GOvernment to step in and set policy.

Imagine as an author if all of a sudden "Science Fiction, Fantasy Fiction, and the Romance Genre" was deemed inappropriate for people and was "infecting the youth of the world with messages they cannot handle."
What if an organization was started that felt that the Government should not only censor books but would require they have a rating system. What if they wanted to enact LAW that would state that you would need Government Approval on you manuscript and anything the "Government" felt was inappropriate by their standards you would have to edit out or not write at all. What if they also enacted policy that would have the publishing companies "reassess" the contracts of authors who wrote subjects that contained violence or sexuality.

Sounds like Imperialism and that is what I fear the most.

When it comes to "Global Warming" and the real truth things are a little different than what Al Gore is presenting.
What we do know for fact is this
In the Trophosphere temperatures are actually declining but surface temperatures are rising. One thing that is a red flag is that Surface Temperatures are only using LAND BASED stations and they are NOT factoring in Ocean Temperatures which is causing odd data. Also the "Island Effect" which plagues Surface Temperature Readings is causing other concerns.

Now if we look back historically, way way back then you see a pattern of Warm periods followed by a cool period (Some Ice Ages) and then warming periods. After the last Ice Age the Earth increased in temperature of over 10 degress in less than 20 years and Scientists do not know what mechanism caused this. This is an alarming case of Natural Global Warming and one we cannot explain.
What is alarming is this. Currently we are in a warming phase. We honestly do not know if it is 100% natural or if Man is contributing to it. We honestly don't know for sure. The models and predictions are not working as intended and is leaving many people questioning. We have warmed up about 2 degrees in two hundred years. What is scary is the Earth before has warmed up 10 degrees in under 20 years. If that happened would we as a species be prepared?
The confusion sets in on the debate because when people say Global Warming they are combining the two mechanisms (man made and natural) into one thing. Global Warming.

It is not up for debate it is this simple.
It is a fact we are in a Global Warming phase. That is uncontested.
The question that is on everyone's mind is this.
Is man contributing to Global Warming?

Truthfully, we do not know.
Without knowing that it is hard to offer a solution. The on Al Gore is offering in the end only benefits him and the energy companies and overall the impact would be negligible on the environment but devastating on the average person who would have to carry the financial burden of the Cap and Trade system.

What can we do?
Well first we should have discussions on how the global community will adjust as the temperatures increase. Come up with solutions that help people and further give incentives to research in cleaner fuels, better recycling programs and reduction in ALL pollutants and waste. etc. etc.

What can we each do?
Plant a tree. Sounds sily but if 20 people planted 20 trees that is twenty natural Co2 scrubbers introduced into the global community, gives shade to help "cooling", gives homes to animals and insects, helps fight erosion and deters wind

Imagine if each person in America alone planted one tree the difference it would make for the whole planet.

Other things are better recycling habits, repair instead of replace mentality, be consumer aware of products and the chemicals used to make them.

Many things we can do but I advocate doing them for the right reasons. TO make an actual difference. A decision and lifestyle change made from actual facts and consequences and not policy made from fear.

These "marketing campaigns" (300 million dollars worth) the America People are now being bombarded with do not speak of solutions and talks but rather instill fear and indecision. They coerce people into calling their "political representatives" and demand change.

The thing they do not elaborate on is the long term effect and consequences these "changes" would make people endure.

American People have been politically swindled before. After 9/11 we were terrified. We were told for "national Security" many of our rights would be "amended" and led to the "patriot act". Which in some aspects it is needed for national security but as time has told has led to much governmental abuse and much has ben seen in the news the past few years on the NSA, FBI, and the CIA.
The big swindle though was as the American People where in a high state of inflated panic, panic ensued by constant images of 9/11, Terrorist Alerts, CNN and Fox News blasting us everyday with key words like "Terror, Terrorists, Fanatics, Extremists, etc.
Then outlandish "factual" reports of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. Reports they were selling these to "terrorist nations" and extemists. The American People asked what is going on and the political finger is pointed to the Middle East. "Well there's you're problem." Instead of being given the chance for the American People to ask our own government "How did you let this happen?" it became a PANIC about WMDs and the threat that the next attack would be one using a WMD. Panic and fear instilled enough in the American Pele that when our Governemnt decided to invade Iraq the decision was met with just a tiny fraction of dissent. The fear and panic had sucha tight controll over everyone that almost every single representative of the American People voted FOR invading Iraq because they were under the impression that it was an imminent threat, a threat of WMD usage on a scale that paled in comparison to the horrific damage 9/11 did.
The lines at the recruitment offices were overloaded with American People willing to risk their lives to protect their families.

Now look at present day. It is a mess. The global outlook on America is a scornful one. In the older days I would be looked upon as "One of those crazy Americans, a cowboy" but it would be said with warmth and jest and with a smile and an outreached hand. Now a days If I were to step on foreign soil I would be met with an aloofness and a barely conceled scorn. Invaders for oil. Conqueres. Meddlers.
America is not thought highly of anymore. Not like she used to be.

A fear was instill.
A Panic ensued.
A rash political decision was made.
The aftermath was awful.

What did the impact give us?
Higher fuel costs. Higher Deficit. Higher Taxes. Restricted and some abolished rights Loss of lives and loved ones. Loss of international respect.

Did anyone profit?
The oil industry has had record profits. The main political representative of the American People was an oil man.
Draw you own conclusions.

If you like Al Gore that is your opinion and I can fully respect that but he disturbs me.
He is instilling fear and panic and lobbying for rash policies to be made (sound familiar?). The policies that would be enacted would benefit him greatly but have very little impact on the environment. His company would show record profits that would make the oil company profits pale in comparison. We are talking BILLIONS. The governemnt would also make money of this "cap-and-trade" system as well.

In other words it would be a Al Gore Tax that the US GOvernemnt and Al Gore and other investors would make a ton of money on but would limit actual emissions little and would pass the cost of this policy onto the consumer (the people). Now ask yourself if a company invested 300 Million dollars into marketing something would they do that unless they forsaw making profits well over what the marketing budget was?
If he planned his marketing budget of 25% of his total gains then his total estimated PROFITS would be for 1.2 BILLION dollars.

His own self interest are painfully apparent in the solution he is advocating. He is marketing fear in hopes that the fear will cause a panic and will further rush a rash decision(s) to made about policy without first determining the long term effects globally, economically, and environmentally.

He did it with the PMRC which projected him into the political limelight and furthered his career, once that was achieved very little was done with the PMRC. They had served their purpose. He then advocated a "Man Made Global Crisis" and used it politically strengthen his political party.
Reports that 48 Nobel Prize-winning scientists accused Bush of distorting science,
without mentioning that the scientists acted as members of a 527 political group
set up to promote the Kerry for President Campaign.

Controversy sells and is an excellent marketing tool, PMRC that lead to 2000 Political Campaign, 2007 he uses heavily debated environmental issues to further springboard him into the political circuit for the 2008 elections. His networth has increased by 500% after he left office and now he stands to profit billions if he can get the american people to agree to his "solution" for Global Warming.

You may see a hero when you view Al Gore.

I see him with blonde hair, blue eyes, and two silver lightning bolts on his collar, smiling to me as he points me towards the "green" showers of enlightenment, and that by taking the shower the world will improve.

I do feel man needs to change the ways we interact with the environment. I do also think we need to advocate patience and study to devise solutions that will accomplish a greener environment without depriving people of the abilities to live in a modern society and without leading towards the decline of civilization.

I do not advocate fear mongering, over-stating facts, or skewing data in order to make a political point. I do not think causing controversy is the method the world needs to take but rather a patient and knowledgeable one that would lead to global harmony instead of Global Control.

Sorry for rant. Sorry for the Novel.
If anything from my lunatic ranting I would hope anyone who reads this feels compelled to plant a tree. I could sleep better at night knowing that trees are being planted all over the world.

The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

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Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:15 pm Post

Sorry, but that's way too much for me to digest at this time of the evening! However, two quick points;

[1] Gore's "I took the initiative in creating the Internet" quote is exactly what the link to Snopes that Druid posted deals with. And, while badly phrased, it's true - Gore was instrumental in pushing through initiatives that advocated widening the reach of the Internet during its commercial infancy.

[2] Opening energy companies up to a competitive market, so that the consumer has a so-called "choice" of where to buy their energy from, is exactly what they did here in the UK a few years ago. And it's been an utter, total disaster. Service levels have plummeted, while prices have risen (and continue to rise) by astronomical amounts, up to and beyond 15% every single year. Commercialisation is not the solution.
Antony Johnston

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Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:05 pm Post

People may not have much choice where to buy their energy from, but they can decide how much to buy. Increase prices and you give people an incentive to buy more efficient light bulbs, use smart thermostats, and so forth. Increase prices even more, and it starts to make sense to put a solar panel and/or solar hot water heater on your roof, use public transit instead of driving, etc. IMO, economic incentives/disincentives are likely to be among the most effective ways to change people's energy use patterns.

One of the big arguments in favor of a cap and trade system is that credits can also be retired. That is, the Nature Conservancy (for instance) can buy carbon credits and take them out of the system, or government fiat can reduce the number of credits in the system over time. Retiring credits *does* lead to real emissions reductions.

If you care about energy and climate change issues, I can strongly recommend the Materials Research Society's special April MRS Bulletin issue (http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/sec_subscribe. ... DID=200925). It's a comprehensive look at the whole spectrum of energy technologies. The issue concludes (very briefly) that there is no single answer, and there is no easy answer, but waiting for the Perfect Solution to appear isn't an option either.

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