When did Apple become the new Microsoft?

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Jaysen
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:53 am Post

nom wrote:Another thing to try (if you have the disk space): create a new partition for fresh install Yosemite and see if it runs OK. If it does, then it's unlikely to be hardware and more likely to be your current install - either something when wrong, or some cruft was carried over from a prior machine. On the other hand, if the secondary install suffers the same problems as your main one, then I'd take the whole thing back to Apple.

would not be very likely on a freshly PURCHASED unit (which I think is what we are talking about here).

Point blank, the "quality" of apple delivered product is declining from the prospective of defect count. Higher rates of bad HW, higher rates of bad initial images, etc. I wouldn't hesitate to request a replacement.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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Eldritch
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:18 pm Post

Thanks guys but I am still convinced these issues are all OS based as every problem is affecting lots of other people who are all coming from different angles. ie new machines with pre-installed, old machines with upgrades, iMacs, mac minis, MBPs, Mac Pros etc. There seems to be no constant with the exception of Yosemite.

Jaysen wrote:would not be very likely on a freshly PURCHASED unit (which I think is what we are talking about here).

We are indeed. :lol: I bought the 2.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5 mac mini.

For example this is the iTunes issue I am getting. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6665145

A thread on the Sleep/wake issue https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6605926

And one on the wifi problem. http://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/26/apple-discoveryd-replaced-with-mdnsresponder/

All the other things I have managed to resolve after trying a few online suggestions. :D
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Jaysen
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:32 pm Post

Hopefully quad core. :)

I've been using yose for a while and haven't had those problems. On my old hardware I typically get all the issues that are buggy OS. Which leads me to believe there has to be something "more deeperer" going on than just crap build on the OS. Especially with a fresh install.

I'm assuming you've done the shift boot thing to disable extensions. That leaves me with my favorite "bad guy" software. You running parallels, fusion, virtual box or some other system virtualization software. So far every single issue I've had has stemmed form use of hypervisors. Even if you removed them they still leave crap in the kernel that needs manually removed. Might be worth looking into.

But I do agree with the general sentiment that Apple is really starting to have less value to me as an OS. I'll likely go back to linux soon just to be "back in control" of how the UI changes. I've no need for "compatible interfaces" and would rather just have my gritty old OS 7 interface.

BAH! HUMBUG!
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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Eldritch
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:03 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:Hopefully quad core. :)


Nope, in their infinite wisdom they have reduced it to duo core. :shock:

Jaysen wrote:I'm assuming you've done the shift boot thing to disable extensions. That leaves me with my favorite "bad guy" software. You running parallels, fusion, virtual box or some other system virtualization software. So far every single issue I've had has stemmed form use of hypervisors. Even if you removed them they still leave crap in the kernel that needs manually removed. Might be worth looking into.


No, to be honest I haven't. Will try the shift boot thing. I only really use it for work so the only apps are Scrivener, Illustrator, Photoshop, Little Snitch and a menu bar radio app called Radium.

Jaysen wrote:But I do agree with the general sentiment that Apple is really starting to have less value to me as an OS. I'll likely go back to linux soon just to be "back in control" of how the UI changes. I've no need for "compatible interfaces" and would rather just have my gritty old OS 7 interface.

BAH! HUMBUG!


Haha I loved those days. Back then I was a huge Apple fanboy and most people I knew had never even heard of Apple. I remember I used to go to the Mac Expos that were held in London and watching in awe the unveiling of either OS 7 or 8 and the ability to reduce a window to a tab that could then sit nicely at the bottom of your screen. :shock: Wow!
When in doubt, have a man come through the door with a gun in his hand.
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Jaysen
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:34 pm Post

Just when I thought the day couldn't get more depressing you force me to go look at the apple store. I have may foul things to exclaim. The neighbors will be amused.

That radio app and/or little snitch would be my suspect. They are likely not doing anything intentionally but they may just hit a big that is expressed by some OS call they are using. Likely a random alignment of bits sent just to torture your grey matter.

i didn't think any i5 2 core die existed. The other bit heads might correct me but I was under the impression that intel make a statement that all dies would be 4+ going forward. I'm wondering if these 2 core chips are "created" the same way as higher clocked chips... they just speed them up till they fail. In this case a 2 core would really be a 4 core with 2 defective cores that pass no testing. The two failed cores are amputated electrically but still there... That would leave tons of way for gremlins like you are seeing to be present.

But now I'm just cursing the very existence of multicore processors GIVE ME THE DAYS WHEN EACH CORE NEEDED A SOCKET!

BAH HUMBUG!
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 26 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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xiamenese
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:14 am Post

Just a thought, in line with Jaysen. Some while ago ... not as far back as System 7 — I really got into Apple with my first Mac (the short-lived IIvi) with System 8 ... which gave me the only real headache I've had with Apple ... I loaded the Chinese system extension which immediately trashed the HD, so I had to take it back for a new HD, but it was fine after that — but ...

... that while ago, about 3 years I guess, I tried Little Snitch as I thought it might be useful. It caused all sorts of havoc, and I had to remove it immediately.

And like Jaysen, since doing a clean install of Yos, I haven't had any trouble with it. Do you live so far in the depths of Cymru that taking it back to an Apple Store to be checked is not an easy option? My inclination would be to follow Jaysen's advice. Think how much time and temper you've lost because of these bugs — would the time spent driving to your nearest store not be equally well spent?

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Eldritch
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:06 am Post

The Apple store is about 30 miles away. I'm sure, if I get up early enough to avoid all the cows being taken for milking, I can catch the daily bus out of the village to the big City. :roll: I'll try and pop in early next week as the weekend will probably be hectic. It'll be interesting to hear what they say, especially if it is the OS. :twisted:

In the meantime I will remove Radium, Litte Snitch and boot without extensions to see if that makes any difference.
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xiamenese
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Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:22 am Post

Book yourself a "genius" appointment first ... then you can be sure you can get seen.

Which is the "big city"?

:)

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nom
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:25 pm Post

Eldritch wrote:
Jaysen wrote:would not be very likely on a freshly PURCHASED unit (which I think is what we are talking about here).

We are indeed. :lol: I bought the 2.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5 mac mini.


Yep, that was my understanding. I also understood (perhaps misunderstood?) that you had copied across data from a previous machine onto your new install. I don't recall mention about what method you used to copy that data.

The issues seem unusual for plain-wrap Yosemite. This is not to say that your experiences are unique, we know that other people experience them too, but they still remain the exception. Hence the suggestion that software or hardware may be the true gremlins. The steps suggested — Jaysen's shift-boot (easy, I'd *definitely* do that as a first step) and then, if necessary, a secondary clean-install (time consuming, but thorough) — should help identify if the issue is most likely to be OS, software or hardware based.

For the record, I've had experience with buggy hardware. Took three years to sort it out, but this was before an Apple store opened an accessible distance away. Once it did, it only took their Geniuses 2 or 3 goes before they decided to replace my ageing machine with a brand new MBP (AppleCare was worth every penny on that machine). I wouldn't wish 3 years of buggy hardware on anyone – it's worth investigating now.
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nontroppo
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Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:09 pm Post

There has been many complaints from the upper echelons of the Apple geekosphere that Yosemite is the result of a clear downward spiral in terms of software craftsmanship, and this is worse than any hardware changes:

http://www.marco.org/2015/01/04/apple-l ... igh-ground
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/0 ... igh-ground
http://furbo.org/2015/01/06/death-by-a-thousand-cuts/

and a good description of the discoveryd woes:

http://furbo.org/2015/05/05/discoveryd-clusterfuck/

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vic-k
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Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:44 am Post

OK! Y' can all relax now. I've just got rid of the Yosemite septic tank, and connected to a proper sewer. :wink: Image Classic ... eh? :wink:
Still got the 'Idiots' Guide To OS 8.5' somewhere :?
Ahh … there y go! :D Image
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Eldritch
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Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:47 pm Post

nom wrote:Yep, that was my understanding. I also understood (perhaps misunderstood?) that you had copied across data from a previous machine onto your new install. I don't recall mention about what method you used to copy that data.

I never actaually copied any data. All Apps were newly installed or downloaded direct from source. I then have several external drives: 1, Work . 2, Music. 3, Media. 4, Scratch disc.

Strange to most I expect but I tend to keep the Mac for apps only. Everything else goes on drives.

xiamenese wrote:Which is the "big city"?

Cardiff. There is a nearer City but it doesn't have an Apple Store. Wales has only two. So if you're in the North you're pretty much out of luck. :roll:

I have been trying to book an appointment but for some reason every page on the apple site loads fine until you get to the booking section. I have been trying most of the day so I'm giving up and am instead going to sort out a replacement via Amazon. I'm sure that will be quicker than trying to book the appointment.

vic-k wrote:Still got the 'Idiots' Guide To OS 8.5' somewhere :?

lol I still have a copy of the 1996 Maclopedia with a CD-Rom that include fully hypelinked TEXT! :shock:
I also still have my Mac Plus with http://www.cultofmac.com/122408/signed-by-steve-jobs-co-signatures-inside-the-original-macintosh-case/
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Eldritch
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Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:57 pm Post

So.... new Mac, same issues. Wifi didn't work initially, needed to upgrade. The redraw issues in iTunes 12 are still present. The only slight difference is, instead of the 'fuzzy 8bit style' screen on wake up, I now occasionally get a black screen which means I have to force shut down as there seems no way to get the monitor to sense the Mac Mini is awake. This is obviously more of a pain than the fuzzy screen was. :? I haven't installed Little Snitch or Radium so they're out of the equation for sources of the problem. Guess I'm going to have to pin my hopes on 10.10.4. :roll:
When in doubt, have a man come through the door with a gun in his hand.
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Br
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Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:53 am Post

10.10.4 … today, along with iOS 8.4.

We'll soon see…

If it is released today, I hope it fixes the issues you're experiencing.

If it is not released today, get the beta…
https://beta.apple.com/sp/betaprogram/welcome
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Br
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Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:13 pm Post

Eldritch wrote:So.... new Mac, same issues. Wifi didn't work initially, needed to upgrade. The redraw issues in iTunes 12 are still present. The only slight difference is, instead of the 'fuzzy 8bit style' screen on wake up, I now occasionally get a black screen which means I have to force shut down as there seems no way to get the monitor to sense the Mac Mini is awake. This is obviously more of a pain than the fuzzy screen was. :? I haven't installed Little Snitch or Radium so they're out of the equation for sources of the problem. Guess I'm going to have to pin my hopes on 10.10.4. :roll:


10.10.4 just released… fingers crossed.
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