What was there before the time came into being?

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bobueland
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:48 pm Post

According to physics our cosmos was created 15 billion years ago with a big bang. Not only was the space and matter created then, but also the time itself. But what was there before the big bang? The question might seem to be meaningless since before time existed there could not have been any "before". The word "before" has only meaning within the context of time. So what created our cosmos then? If anything created our cosmos it must belong to another dimension then space or time. And since this dimension is beyond (orthogonal to) space and time, it must still "exist". That must mean that this "thing" can't die, because it has nothing to do with time.
Are there timeless things? The answer is yes. According to Einstein's relativity theory the time slows down as you approach the light of speed so the light itself does not experience any time.
Are there any other things which are beyond time? Consciousness could be such a thing. If it is so, then we are not just material objects aging with time but also conscious beings dwelling in a dimension orthogonal to time. And by definition this part of ourself does not die. So really, you do not need to be afraid of dying. Your little ego will die, that's for sure, but your deep consciousness will always be here. So consciousness could be a fifth dimension. I do not claim that this is so, I just claim that it could be the case. It is certainly more plausible then there being just four dimensions (three in space plus the time).
According to some physics there could be as many as ten dimensions or more. Dimensions that we are unfamiliar with. I do not know anything about these dimensions but if the consciousness is a fifth dimension, we do know something about it. It is nearer to us then anything else. I think that was the meaning Decartes had in mind when he said "I think, therefore I am". What he really meant was "I'm conscious, therefore I am". You really do not have to think in order to "know that you exist", but you have to be conscious in order to know that you exist. So the consciousness is not really the fifth dimension, it's the first dimension. And it was the consciousness that created the space and matter and time 15 billion years ago. Pure speculation? Of course. Have a good night's sleep.
Don't be a sissy, don't be a snob. Post a reply to Ueland Bob.

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Wock
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:12 am Post

A ruler that is only 12 inches long can appear to only measure something that is a foot or less in size unless some creative uses are used with the ruler to measure something larger than it is capable of measuring.

Time is a form of measurement that we created to "measure" the passing of time but it is limited in its use since time is irrelevant when you actually think of Speed (Another form of measurement). The same thing can be said for all forms of measurement such as math, phsyics, biology, etc. It is limited to the imagination of the user and the context the user is trying to put it in. Some interesting studies have been approached in what is now refered to as "M Theory- [14 demensions I think the count is now]", a by product of string theory.

In the end what it boils down to is the limitations one puts on something when they observe or try to measure something. One could limit ones thinking to 12" or less when equipped with a ruler or with a bit of creative working they can measure a mile.

In the end it comes down to one's own beliefs and interests when faced with theories.


Reality is a concept but not all concepts are a reality.

:-)
The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

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Khadrelt
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:08 pm Post

I had a talk with a physicist about it once, and frankly, none of it made any sense.

If you ask me, all the scientific mumbo-jumbo in the world trying to describe what was there before the Big Bang is really nothing more than an extremely convoluted way to say, "Heck, I haven't got the faintest idea," without people actually knowing that's what they're saying.
And that, my Liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.

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Wock
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:32 pm Post

I think this is known as double speak or "legalise". Lawyers and scholars are famous for this weird and astute language. How to BS with big words.

lol
The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

ha
hallogallo
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm Post

There's a amazing novel if one is interested in dimensions named Flatland by Edwin Abbot. It's about beings in a two dimensional world that discovers a third dimension. Some physics and some political satire.

Also, Hyperspace is a quite nice book. And if that fits like hand in glove, read An Elegant Universe. It's more science and math that Hyperspace, but very fascinating.

I will not stretch myself as far as to call it scientific mumbo-jumbo, but it is a mathematical and physical construct, and a quite interesting one.

But for a layman this all comes down to trying to bend your mind and make your brain to somersaults inside your skull, and keeping all nerve connections intact.

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KB
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:18 pm Post

Having evolved in three dimensions and the fourth of time, the whole thing is a little beyond human understanding (or consciousness). Which doesn't stop anybody from lying awake at 3am thinking: Huh? What was before time? Except before is a time word, right? So without time, there can't be any before. Oh. And what existed before the universe? Um. But space and time are part of the universe so there can't actually be a place or a time outside it. Oh dear. Is that blood coming out of my ear? And so on.

Best,
Keith

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vic-k
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:57 pm Post

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with the statement,"A billion years prior to the Big Bang."
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Khadrelt
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:28 pm Post

That would depend on whether or not you really think there ever was a Big Bang - or if there were Big Bangs before the last one, perhaps many of them in a long line of succession - or wait, even billions of Big Bangs spawned by an awesome Mother Of All Big Bangs that banged out all those little Big Bangs!
And that, my Liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped.

ha
hallogallo
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Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:31 pm Post

Then, what was before the Mother of all Big Bangs? :shock:

da
dafu
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Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:00 am Post

Then, what was before the Mother of all Big Bangs?


The tail of the next big bang.


Dave

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bobembry
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Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:13 am Post

Thoughts on the incompatibility of time and eternity: The Unfashionalbe Kierkegaard. See links to full text on right. Also try Googling "Unfashionalbe Kierkegaard"


The problems of using the human brain to make sense of all this ;)

Bob
Preparing for Real Life Adventures http://rlaexp.com/memo.html. It's impossible to work on things that aren't on one's mental radar at the necessary point in time.

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vic-k
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Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:49 am Post

I can feel a migraine coming on.
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vic-k
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Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:22 am Post

Dear Sirs,
I find your responses to that gentleman`s question, both discourteous and juvenile.

To quote a learned ex- colleague of mine, at Trinity College, Dublin, “Ask a serious question, and all the feckin eejits come crawling out of the woodwork.â€
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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AmberV
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Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:47 pm Post

.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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Wock
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Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:44 pm Post

I have to ask this. How do we know it was a big bang? Could it not have been a big boom? Since no one was around to observe this was there any sound at all?

I guess "The Big Clunk Theory" is not very good marketing. I vote to rename it KA-BLAMMM!
The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.