Sensible Windows vs Mac debate (NO FLAMES, please)...

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vic-k
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:08 pm Post

Scuse me, but, as a definitely none/ none/ none techie, who couldn`t tell a command line interface, from his arse or his elbow; even if one jumped out of a darkened shop doorway, and indecently exposed itself to him, I was wondering if the title of this topic is grammatically correct.

Is there such an animal as, `SENSIBLE Windows`

I`m confused.

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Vic
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KB
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:36 pm Post

Sensible windows - yes. They have a PVC frame. You can buy them from the same retailer that sells Unhinged doors, though I do not recommend the latter.

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AmberV
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:40 pm Post

It should be noted that Enterprise windows, though more expensive, have that nice mirrored exterior surfacing which will lend an exotic look to any home.
.:.
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Juddbert
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:45 pm Post

AmberV wrote:It should be noted that Enterprise windows, though more expensive, have that nice mirrored exterior surfacing which will lend an exotic look to any home.


Not to mention the energy saving, heat retaining properties of triple K-type glazing. You can read anything through them too...
Can't write right. Don't care neither. Er...either.

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vic-k
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:22 pm Post

Scuse me,but can I interject for a second. I don`t want to deflect the profoundly philosophical direction this thread heading in, but, I would like Keith to clarify in what sense is he using the word unhinged . Does he mean an object that has lost its ability to move in space, through an arc of X number of degrees of a circle, or does he mean, like that bunch of fecking ner`do`ells; deadbeats and no-hopers: my in-laws.

In anticipation of elucidation

Vic
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:50 pm Post

Aye, there's the rub.

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vic-k
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Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:16 pm Post

Oh Great One, Sire of Scrivener,

Doest thou mean "Aye, they`re the rub".

You can say that again.


Now to sleep, per chance to dream,
Sweet dreams, me thinks and you too , Lord of the House of Scrivener.
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vic-k
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Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:36 am Post

Keith my Liege
Your liegeman prostrates himself at your feet in supplication, for , having slept: but fitfully; and dreamt, not sweetly, there In my `sleep of death` like state`, was it not revealed unto me, the error of my ways; `Do not deign to doubt your Master`s words, uttered or written`.

In this most parlous state, was I not pursued by three of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Which three, my Liege, I know not, but only that they were of fiercesome disposition and appearance. Two, launching themselves into cyberspace from Bodmin Moor, the third from off the Oregon Trail.

As one is wont to do, in situations such as this, my Lord, did I not dream of being trapped on the edge of a precipice, confronted by the leader of the three; his sword raised high above my head, intent on cleaving me in two.
Suddenly, the sound of a bugle call, drifted over the ether. The three demons looked at one-another and as one, they uttered the word, "Shit !!". Whereupon with the sound of POP! POP! POP! they disappeared.

Not as I expected; the banner of The Horsemen of Rohan fluttering on the breeze, as they rode up-to me, but that belonging to a troop of the US 7th Cavalry. There leader dismounted and approached me.

Stopping a few feet away and with a knowing look on his face, he said, " Buster, you screwed up up big time, didn`t `y?" I just smiled sheepishly and nodded. He continued, "But, to err is human, to forgive divine".
"Just a minute John", I said, " The plot is supposed the be Shakespearianesque, but you just dragged Alexander Pope into it".

John turned slowly towards his dust spattered cavalry men and their mounts and then back to me, "There aint noth`n Shakesperian about that lot and anyway the scriptwriters are crap".
'Thats what I thought, when you used the phrase `screwed up`
"Pay attention now and stop splitting hairs"

" Our friends the double glazing company in Redmond, Washington", he continued, " Have openly admitted trying to get their product, to look like the product of that other well known double glazing company, in Cupertino, which entitles them to call themselves `Sensible Windows".

I was about to agree with him when I woke up , drench in sweat.

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vic
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Tacitus
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Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:44 am Post

I can go back to punch cards and paper tape and the delights of editing individual cards with a hand punch....

To me the difference between Macs and PCs is down to the philosophy of Apple v Microsoft. For MS designing software is all about ensuring domination. Things are done either to eliminate opposition or at the very least make it difficult, in order to ensure the maintenance of the monopoly.

OTOH, Apple is about the end user. It's about designing stuff that brings something to people's lives, either enabling them to do things they couldn't do before or make it easier.

Those philosophies rub off on developers. 'Good enough' doesn't cut it for Mac users, they crave elegance and ease of use. The average PC user though, regards 'cheap' as the main criterion.

As somebody elsewhere on this thread (almost) remarked, a PC user will come to you and tell you how cheap their machine was, a Mac user will show you something exciting they did with their new Mac.

Just my tuppence worth....
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to escape

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vic-k
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Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:04 pm Post

Greetings Tacitus,
If you can go back that far you`re possibly older than I am. I`m 63.

If you`ve clocked any of my other posts, you`ll be aware I don`t do serious very well, it`s nearly all asinine tripe, looking for lodgings in somebody`s chuckle, unless, that is, where a lack of seriousness is offensively irreverent. So this will probably choke me, but:

A nursing sister on a degree course once informed me, as we debated the near impossibility of reconciling `practice with theory` , that on her course, they had been shown how it involved Quantum Mechanics. It was Christmas Day and both of us had imbibed, so I didn`t venture down that avenue and as a consequence, I don`t really know how Q.M. impacts upon conflict resolution, which is what this thread is all about, is it not?

The best way to resolve contentious issues is to take the best from both sides of the argument and blend them together and put to one side. Now take that, which with a little bit of give and take from both sides can be deemed acceptable and blend together with the first blending, and there you have it ,
an acceptable compromise; all the things of value from both sides of the debate, as there will always be something of merit to be gleaned from both sides.

What springs to mind, is this thing I`m writing this post on: INTEL CORE2 DUO iMAC with at last, has obscene amounts of RAM; Exocet fast processor and gi-normous hard drive. A quantum leap for Apple, and why? because of an amalgamation with Intel, making use of a piece of evolved PC technology, thats used in, probably, every other non-Apple PC manufactured today. AMD are making similar spec.chips.


Wintel v Apple is a more sensible title (Keith`s gonna luv that), since it acknowledges the fact that we`re debating the relative merit and demerits, of numerous brands of hardware incorporating MS OS and one brand, the other, OS X

It`s awhile since I read the Mac Mags and Press, but at the time it seemed to me, that all the Mac Heads were saying that, MS`s Office for MAC was a better piece of software, than it produced for its own MS OFFICE, and also O for M was the most widely used piece of software for the MAC OS. Perhaps things have changed, I don`t know, but MS must have been doing something better than Apple.

As far as hardware goes; apart from the aesthetic side of the debate, in which it can be said without fear of contradiction, that Apple are the trail blazers, what went on under the cover, has been a different story. PowerPC chips, pound for pound relatively faster than than the others; true, but when you`re watching Intel and AMD moving into multiples of gigahertz, while IBM are still fannying around with megahertz, the pound for pound analogy becomes redundant when all other PC manufacturers are installing 100+Gig hard drives, Apple are still pushing 6/10 20 Gig. Apple graphics cards ? "not that brilliant", etc. etc.etc. It doesn't say much for Apple`s opinion of its loyal customer base. It does however make you wonder if Apples Execs have been cynically exploiting that loyalty.

Another thing about customer loyalty, especially the European customers. Why can my daughter`s boy friend go the States on holiday , and buy himself a MacBook substantially cheaper than he can over here. Don`t go looking for the near 2 to 1 $/£ exchange rate, you wont get it not from Apple. But what you can count on with Apple, is the oppotunity of paying substantially more for your favorite product, than the guy next door pays for his favorite non-Apple product of similar or superior spec.

The iMAC I`ve just bought came with a keyboard PINBALL machine. If I plug my mouse into the LH USB socket, the curser flies all over the screen just like the pin ball. I can only use the RH socket.

My Mighty Mouse is no longer as mighty as it when it came out of the box, because the scroll wheel has stopped working, but, it doesn`t matter, because I`m using MS Optical mouse.

The fact that, approx 40% of the time, when moving the curser over the screen the window I`m working in zooms away to the left or right or to the top or the bottom.

I`m starting to get used to the very sharp, loud, mechanical CRACK!!!!! that quite often occurs when booting up, as the the little wheel stops spinning. It still scares my wife though.

My iMAC`s Superdrive makes noises similar to our waste disposal unit in the kitchen sink only quieter.

Sooner or later my wife is going to wet herself when she hears that crack!! and I suppose that`s when I`ll get round to taking Mac back to John Lewis, and say to guy behind the counter,`Mac`s poorly, can you make him better please, but don`t hurt him. He`s not a computer y`know, he`s a MAC.

You see Tacitus, the Wintel/Mac debate, has been going on for ever and is shrouded in the swirling mists, not of time, but urban myth and it`s that, that fuels the proselytizing that emanates from both camps, and is probably 40% fact 60% mist But, and it`s a big but, long may it continue, just as long as you can still pick the PC man`s empty glass up off the pub table and ask " Same again, friend?'.

Take care
Vic
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

Ta
Tacitus
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Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:23 pm Post

Quote: "If you can go back that far you're possibly older than I am. I'm 63".

Not quite but you're in the ball park. At the risk of getting off topic I used to design motorways for a living and I recall that a section of motorway had a whole tray of cards to it, each one giving its position, level and other details at 100 foot intervals. The sequence had to be correct else the programmes wouldn''t work. Once saw a grown man weep when he dropped a whole tray representing a 10 mile stretch of road....

Back on topic, since both Apple and MS are US companies they do like to make shed loads of dosh. It's the American Way, but if you accept the profit motive as equal to both companies I still think the 'way' of making it is different, hence the difference in philosophy.

And I don't even use Scrivener.... Just trying it but until now didn't have something to give it a decent workout.
History is a nightmare from which I am trying to escape