I know you are, but what am I?

User avatar
Bradley310
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:05 am
Platform: Windows
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:03 pm Post

Prometheus wrote: I don't think I'm asking for much that you allow people to give their feedback on a product in a forum area that you designated for feedback without being attacked by your kneejerk defenders. Even if they don't represent the company, the tacit allowance of their insults to those who offer an opinion that is anything but glowing will assuredly sway at least some people that this is not a community to which they want to belong. It isn't a good look for the company.

So now the dogpilers will do what they normally do, and as this very thread has shown with people posting exactly the same thing I'm talking about, L&L will do nothing to rein in their dogs. Even, as shown by another poster, when those offering criticisms also do things like report bugs they've found, only to be sarcastically told not to do the thing about which they're reporting the bug. It's astonishing the behavior you allow because those x+n posters basically work as free tech support for you.


Don't waste your breath here. I check the blog periodically and, as usual, there have been no updates regarding Version 3 in almost a year. For some, the natural thing to do is come into the forums to see if there is any news. If you have the nerve to ask about it you can expect to be attacked and insulted. I find this true of the moderators as well.

The answer you'll usually get is to search through previous posts and look at the bug reports. That's right. The company sees no need to provide a simple service of giving an update, no matter how small. They expect you to dive into the forums to search for your answer. An update from time to time (with no due date) is not too much to ask, but apparently L&L disagrees.
Author, Podcast Producer and Host. https://bradshreve.com/

No
NoHope
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:21 am
Platform: Windows

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:39 pm Post

Bradley310 wrote:
Don't waste your breath here. I check the blog periodically and, as usual, there have been no updates regarding Version 3 in almost a year. For some, the natural thing to do is come into the forums to see if there is any news. If you have the nerve to ask about it you can expect to be attacked and insulted. I find this true of the moderators as well.

The answer you'll usually get is to search through previous posts and look at the bug reports. That's right. The company sees no need to provide a simple service of giving an update, no matter how small. They expect you to dive into the forums to search for your answer. An update from time to time (with no due date) is not too much to ask, but apparently L&L disagrees.


Not true. I don’t believe anyone has been attacked and insulted for simply asking how it’s progressing. People (who get all precious and claim a toxic environment) do get slapped down for attacking L&L, calling for sackings, rabbiting on about supposed alternatives, all of which are either obscenely expensive subscriptions or lacking most of the Scrivener features.

As for providing information, simply go direct to the Win beta forum for in depth, gory detail on exactly how it’s progressing. How many places on the site do L&L have to place this information?

Amazes me how the whiners feel the right to attack L&L, their staff, other forum members yet the moment anyone pushes back, corrects factual errors, defend the beta etc, those people are immediately labelled toxic etc. Guess some snowflakes can dish it but not take it...

I’ve been mostly ‘gone’ from the forum after getting sick of the whiners complaining about no full release and rabbiting on about toxic environment. I’ve come back recently to check on progress only to find the same and new suspects who’s only reason for existence in the forum seems to be to attack L&L and anyone who dares disagree. Perhaps if they ceased complaining for five minutes and actually tried the beta they’d find a stable program that even in beta is streets ahead of any alternative?

Having got that off my chest I’ll sod off again and give the forum a miss for a few more months.

Tw
Twolane
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm
Platform: Windows

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:57 pm Post

Prometheus wrote: it's the same assholes

Back again, are ya? Welcome to the club.

User avatar
Bradley310
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:05 am
Platform: Windows
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:56 pm Post

NoHope wrote:
Bradley310 wrote:
Don't waste your breath here. I check the blog periodically and, as usual, there have been no updates regarding Version 3 in almost a year. For some, the natural thing to do is come into the forums to see if there is any news. If you have the nerve to ask about it you can expect to be attacked and insulted. I find this true of the moderators as well.

The answer you'll usually get is to search through previous posts and look at the bug reports. That's right. The company sees no need to provide a simple service of giving an update, no matter how small. They expect you to dive into the forums to search for your answer. An update from time to time (with no due date) is not too much to ask, but apparently L&L disagrees.


As for providing information, simply go direct to the Win beta forum for in depth, gory detail on exactly how it’s progressing. How many places on the site do L&L have to place this information?


I’ve been mostly ‘gone’ from the forum after getting sick of the whiners complaining about no full release and rabbiting on about toxic environment. I’ve come back recently to check on progress only to find the same and new suspects who’s only reason for existence in the forum seems to be to attack L&L and anyone who dares disagree. Perhaps if they ceased complaining for five minutes and actually tried the beta they’d find a stable program that even in beta is streets ahead of any alternative?

Having got that off my chest I’ll sod off again and give the forum a miss for a few more months.


Once a week I check the blog to see if there have been any updates. From there I come in here to the forums, which most customers wouldn't even think of doing whether there's a link or not. No customer should be expected to go into a forum to find an answer to what should be a simple question. L&L should be thrilled people are excited about the update.

Anyway, each week I do get the updates and get to see who is latest victim here because they didn't know better.

Don't go crying to me that I should use the beta. While I typically refuse to beta any program, because I don't want to be a guinea pig for what may be an unstable platform, I did make the jump with Scrivener and have been using the beta for some time now. I like it a lot. That doesn't mean I don't want to check periodically to see if V3 is finally rolling out. I've just learned to be smart enough not to ask about it. Others don't know what they're getting into.

As I said before, and got the typical moderator response, anything is better than nothing. A simple blog post that says "We want to think all our beta users for continuing to help us develop Windows version 3" would be enough to let people know it hasn't been forgotten. I worked 20 years for a corporation in the service industry and would have been fired long ago by the lack of information, or poor communication, given here.

That all being said, I guess I'm wasting time responding to your message because you apparently are the snowflake who sees the need to go running away.
Author, Podcast Producer and Host. https://bradshreve.com/

No
NoHope
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:21 am
Platform: Windows

Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:48 am Post

Bradley310 wrote:[
That all being said, I guess I'm wasting time responding to your message because you apparently are the snowflake who sees the need to go running away.


No, no need to run away, just no need to watch ‘certain people’ wasting electrons with endless complaints because they can’t simply bookmark a page that takes them directly to the latest news.

I know the beta will auto tell me there’s an upgrade and L&L will tell me when I can buy the full version. My periodic visits are primarily to see what great tips are in all the other threads and compare my experiences with other beta testers.

I’m not so precious that I need L&L to thank me every few weeks or months for getting to use the free beta in return for potentially identifying a bug.

Out for a while to write.

User avatar
Bradley310
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:05 am
Platform: Windows
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:05 pm Post

NoHope wrote:
Bradley310 wrote:[
That all being said, I guess I'm wasting time responding to your message because you apparently are the snowflake who sees the need to go running away.


I’m not so precious that I need L&L to thank me every few weeks or months for getting to use the free beta in return for potentially identifying a bug.

Out for a while to write.


If that's what you got out of my post you clearly missed the point.
Author, Podcast Producer and Host. https://bradshreve.com/

User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
Contact:

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:16 pm Post

ArgentArts wrote:What's the harm in an occasional blog post stating v3 work is still on-going, that you're on beta v3.xxx and bugs are getting squashed?

ArgentArts wrote:For some, the thought of a beta turns them off.


If you look back at the historical response to such updates, you would have answered your own questions. There are a very vocal minority of people who respond to progress reports in a very toxic fashion. L&L is damned if they do, damned if they don't -- and I, for one, don't blame them for deciding to go the path of less effort. They're going to get toxicity thrown their way no matter what they do, so they might as well hunker down, focus on the business of supporting current customers while working on updates without any fanfare, and let folks in the forums deflect the nasty, entitled people of the world.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
Contact:

Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:28 pm Post

ArgentArts wrote:it seems to me it would be in L&L's best interest to inform people, outside the forum, somewhat as to the status of development.


Honest question -- I am not trying to be mean at all.

Why do you believe that your opinion -- without access to any of the marketing, sales, or development data that L&L has collected over its lifetime -- is more compelling than their opinions, which have been formed with access to that data that you and I do not have, and based on the experience of running this company with this product that again, you and I do not have?
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Life has a way of moving you past wants and hopes

User avatar
pigfender
Posts: 2903
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: I share a head with a great many personalities
Contact:

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:59 pm Post

Just to let you know, my phone battery is now sufficiently charged so it’s going to turn itself off low power mode.

Hope that helps clarify things.
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
Image Image

User avatar
AmberV
Posts: 24332
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Ourense, Galiza
Contact:

Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:06 pm Post

I look forward to more cat pictures from you, in that case.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

User avatar
lunk
Posts: 4252
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:24 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Sweden 64° N

Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:20 pm Post

Needs, desires, characteristics. Hmmm...
Maybe you should add ’ability to count’.
I am a user, writing non-fiction and science, using:
* Mac Scrivener 3 on a Macbook 12”, MacBook Pro 13”, and iMac 27”, running different OS.
* iOS Scrivener 1 on an iPhone 11 Pro, iPad Air 9.7”, and iPad Pro 12.9”, all running the latest iOS

User avatar
pigfender
Posts: 2903
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:25 am
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: I share a head with a great many personalities
Contact:

Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:40 am Post

There are three types of people in the world... those that can count and those that can’t.
http://www.pigfender.com | http://www.novelinaday.com
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
Image Image

Jo
Jolanth Szatmary
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:58 am
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Berlin, Germany

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:11 am Post

Is anyone else addicted to clicking Cmd + About Scrivener?

User avatar
garpu
Posts: 2070
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:38 pm
Platform: Linux

Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:16 pm Post

Jolanth Szatmary wrote:Is anyone else addicted to clicking Cmd + About Scrivener?


Clicking it where? In the program? What does it do?
Slackware-current 64-bit, XFCE

Jo
Jolanth Szatmary
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:58 am
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Berlin, Germany

Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:15 am Post

garpu wrote:
Jolanth Szatmary wrote:Is anyone else addicted to clicking Cmd + About Scrivener?


Clicking it where? In the program? What does it do?


I could be just the Mac version: In the menu bar, click Scrivener -> cmd click -> about Scrivener will produce a pop up window with selected quotes from farmous writers. It's my favourite procrastination method when I've forced myself to turn off my internet connection.