Not writing, but subediting

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Siren
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:30 am Post

Interesting article about subediting on the Guardian website this morning:
<http://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2013/sep/20/mind-your-language-subeditors>
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xiamenese
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:18 am Post

Nice article. As a university lecturer in Linguistics, I suffered a variation of the party scene. Started with the same question:

"What do you do?"
"I'm a university lecturer."
"What do you lecture in?"
"Linguistics."
From there, the truly awful would say, "What are Linguistics?"
The less awful would skip that, but as soon as Linguistics was clarified, both types would tell me all about language ... largely based on misunderstandings, erroneous "facts" and urban myths.
The rest of my evening would be spent giving a lecture on Linguistics to the group that had gathered.

I'm now gearing up to face the situation where I meet someone who, on hearing that I've spent the last 13 years in China, will instruct me about what's happening in China, because s/he follows the news here on TV and in the papers, and, of course, no one in China knows what's going on outside their own circle, because all information is censored.
:roll:

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FredInChina
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:21 pm Post

Nice article Siren, thank you :)

xiamenese wrote: (...) I'm now gearing up to face the situation where I meet someone who, on hearing that I've spent the last 13 years in China, will instruct me about what's happening in China, because s/he follows the news here on TV and in the papers, and, of course, no one in China knows what's going on outside their own circle, because all information is censored.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Hugh
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:01 pm Post

Yes, nice article - thanks. It reminded me of a great deal that I'd half-forgotten. But only half-forgotten - one of the penalties of having been a sub on a daily paper is that, deep within one's psyche, one always remains a sub. One's first reaction to any piece of print is to nit-pick.
'Listen, some quiet night, when you've shirked your work that day. Do you hear
that distant, almost inaudible clicking sound? That's one of your
competitors, working away in the night in
Paris or London or Erie, PA.'

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pigfender
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:27 pm Post

xiamenese wrote:"What do you do?"
"I'm a university lecturer."
"What do you lecture in?"
"Linguistics."


You were are a lecturer in Linguistics? What's linguistics?
Tee hee. Only kidding.

In the interest of being at the very least in the "less awful" category, I have a mental failing in that everytime I hear (or think about) the name Noam Chomsky I cannot help but play a song I wrote in my head over and over again. It's not complicated (the lyrics are simply "Noam Chomsky, oooh Noam Chomsky, Noam Chomsky oooh" over and over) but it stays with me all. day. long.

Anyway, that's the only thing approaching a linguistics based anecdote that I have.

Anyway, back to the topic:
the article wrote:I've yet to meet a writer who doesn't believe that, when an editor requests 1,500 words, it's only because they're too embarrassed to ask for more.

Ha!
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
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pigfender
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:27 pm Post

pigfender wrote:It's not complicated (the lyrics are simply "Noam Chomsky, oooh Noam Chomsky, Noam Chomsky oooh" over and over) but it stays with me all. day. long.


DAMMIT!
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xiamenese
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:03 pm Post

pigfender wrote:
pigfender wrote:It's not complicated (the lyrics are simply "Noam Chomsky, oooh Noam Chomsky, Noam Chomsky oooh" over and over) but it stays with me all. day. long.


DAMMIT!

Serves you bloody-well right! :twisted:

pigfender wrote:Anyway, back to the topic:
the article wrote:
I've yet to meet a writer who doesn't believe that, when an editor requests 1,500 words, it's only because they're too embarrassed to ask for more.


Ha!

Me, me, me!

For a few weeks, I wrote a series of articles for 21st Century, the weekly published by China Daily for students and teachers of English. The first article I wrote was done on spec and was too long, so they warned me it would be cut. It wasn't cut, it was hacked about by one of their English (in my experience American) English speaking "polishers", who cut out the whole point of the article and filled my British English with glaring Americanisms, which, for me, stuck out like sore thumbs.

I got to know the column editor, who told me the number of words they wanted, 750, and their style considerations: no more than 2 subordinate clauses; no sentence over 15 words; no rare or very long words. So I made myself a template in the blessed Word 5.1a which replicated exactly their line lengths, hyphenation, column breaks, and wrote absolutely within their guidelines.

I also got the editor and her successor to send me the "polished" copy before it was typset. So every week, I'd get back my 750 carefully crafted words, which had been changed totally erroneously, altering the meaning, destroying the cohesion and coherence, in one line American spellings in the next British spellings ... a real dog's dinner of a text. So each week I sent it back the same day with full explanations as to why their polisher was totally wrong ... 750 words turned into 4.5 to 5 pages with all the comments! And every week, my version was published as I wrote it ... next to articles by their Chinese journalists which were full of grammatical howlers and mis-spellings, and the sort of rubbish the original article talks of, which the "polishers" hadn't been allowed near.

The only one I didn't win was over full-stops etc. inside or outside scare quotes. I got the editor to ask around in China daily. Of course, any Brits agreed with me, the Americans disagreed. So from then on, I made sure there were no scare quotes anywhere near other punctuation.

But my editor got exactly what they wanted.

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Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:48 pm Post

I suppose it's only fitting that someone brings up the 'famous' Giles Coren rant at sub-editors here. I remember reading it as it unfolded in the Times, but -- perhaps unsurprisingly -- references to the debacle are more readily found in rival newspapers these days.

NOTE: The following links both contain offensive language. Including some of the naughtier swear words.

Here is a Guardian journalist listing some of Giles' rants at sub-editors, including the "a nosh" one that went viral:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/j ... g.thetimes

Here is a Sunday Times sub-editor's response (reproduced in the Guardian):
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/j ... publishing
"Some dice only have sixes." nom, 19 Oct 2013
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xiamenese
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:37 am Post

Having been on Giles Coren's side in my last post ... though I have to say that those polishers would have been out on their ear by the end of the first day if they were working anywhere in the West in terms of their level of literacy ... I'm on the side of the sub-editors in these articles. Having been doing that job in relation to translations into English for the last few years, many of them done by people I knew well and even friends, whose English I knew to be better than what they were sending me, I often felt they had done their translations on the basis of, "I'll just knock out a rough translation; Mark's going to be editing it anyway and he'll sort it out."

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Hugh
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Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:46 am Post

xiamenese wrote:...many of them done by people I knew well and even friends...


An example of an important principle of professional writing: 'Make friends with (or be already friends with) the sub.'

Which is itself an instance of an even wider Rule for Life: 'Get the intermediaries on your side.'
'Listen, some quiet night, when you've shirked your work that day. Do you hear
that distant, almost inaudible clicking sound? That's one of your
competitors, working away in the night in
Paris or London or Erie, PA.'

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vic-k
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Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:04 am Post

Hugh wrote:Which is itself an instance of an even wider Rule for Life: 'Get the intermediaries on your side.'
Y' need t' work on the friggin' in laws first, pal ! :shock:
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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Hugh
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Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:18 am Post

vic-k wrote:
Hugh wrote:Which is itself an instance of an even wider Rule for Life: 'Get the intermediaries on your side.'
Y' need t' work on the friggin' in laws first, pal ! :shock:


Aren't they often intermediaries too? :oops: :?
'Listen, some quiet night, when you've shirked your work that day. Do you hear
that distant, almost inaudible clicking sound? That's one of your
competitors, working away in the night in
Paris or London or Erie, PA.'

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Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:50 pm Post

URBAN DICTIOARY
1. In-law
Someone who will be a prime suspect after your murder. Usually mother-In-laws are the worst, not because of their hatred of you, but because the will question you to death.
Stereotypical veteran father-in-law: "Let me show you my M14."

Mother-in-law: "You should take better care of the kids, they're only 21 you know."
murderers /fun nazis /widow makers haters squares
2. In-Laws
People who don't like you and are constantly talking about you, spreading slander on Urban Dictionary!
Oh, you haven't met (insert word) until you've met my in-laws!
inlaws inlawful family crazy manipulative no life
3. in-law
da peeps who look at ya like ya da devil; or, a human who doesn't break no law

intermediary |ˌɪntəˈmiːdɪəri| noun
a person who acts as a link between people in order to try and bring about an agreement; a mediator:
adjective
intermediate:


IN-laws are the cause, mate... needing the services of an intermediary, is the effect

Vic (I was that soldier)
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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Hugh
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Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:27 pm Post

:D
'Listen, some quiet night, when you've shirked your work that day. Do you hear
that distant, almost inaudible clicking sound? That's one of your
competitors, working away in the night in
Paris or London or Erie, PA.'