Lord of The Rings

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Wock
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:24 pm Post

I know it was ground breaking for its time but I re-read it not to long ago and I set them down with a sadness.

I didn't find the writing nor the story really that "AMAZING" but rather mediocre and blandly told.

I find many SCi-Fi stories now a days with much better writing styles, better stories and plots, and to me above the "LOTR series" and yet LOTR is championed as one of the great of its Genre. I do not see the greatness as much as I just see it being one of the "first".

The movies were like the book. Medicore with nothing that really stood out.

Maybe I am being cynical but I have to question that if this is truly "One of the Greats" what exactly is it that is so "great".


PS: Cherry Cola Sucks.
:D
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Jaysen
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:38 pm Post

Personal preference vs. collective preference.

Period.

The same comparison can be made between a photo-realistic painting and the Mona Lisa. Or Vonnegut and Vic-k. As long as we are talking opinion there is no answer.

At the end of the day I think we need to remember that art (of which literature is a type) is primarily subjective.
Last edited by Jaysen on Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 24 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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antony
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:02 pm Post

I think LOTR reads better if you approach it as an epic history of language, to be honest. The linguistics and etymological diversions are more interesting, and frankly better thought out, than the adventure - which is hardly surprising, given Tolkien's profession.

Not that I think the adventure side is bad, per se, but it hasn't dated well (ironic, given that it's a fantasy). One of the reasons I enjoyed the films so much is that they made a much more compelling adventure out of the source material, and pretty much discarded the linguistics side.

LOTR is in the same boat as NEUROMANCER, for me - taken in context of its time, it's a stunning and singular achievement, a book that almost single-handedly created (and certainly popularised) a genre. But out of context, it suffers because so many of its then-innovations are now commonplace, even clichéd.
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pink
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:15 pm Post

I re-read it after seeing the movies - which I loved. I though they did an excellent job of condensing the story into a manageable chunk.

But when I re-read the book, I was almost ashamed to say that I found it very slow. So much of it takes place in meandering observation and thought processes. The action parts of the book are never done in detail, they win a battle in two paragraphs and go on to talk some more about good tobacco, or tea.

I thought that it was probably a symptom of today's fast paced world - that I didn't have the time to sit and wallow in the sensuality of description. That I'd become so desensitised that I couldn't appreciate the detail. I often have a go at my hubby for wanting to watch movies that are full of flames and blood and speed and nothing else. I was horrified to think that I coud be tarred with the same brush.

But on reflection, I don't think I should feel that I let him down. I enjoyed reading the books when I was 12, and will always hold them dear. But times and writing styles change.
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vic-k
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:17 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:The same comparison can be made between a photo-realistic painting and the Mona Lisa. Or Vonegut and Vic-k.

So wot y`sayin` then, I`m as good as the Mony Lisa?
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Jaysen
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Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:25 pm Post

vic-k wrote:
Jaysen wrote:The same comparison can be made between a photo-realistic painting and the Mona Lisa. Or Vonnegut and Vic-k.

So wot y`sayin` then, I`m as good as the Mony Lisa?

in a comparative way considering.... viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4371&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=troll#p35389

Also would help if I was slightly better at spelling than bird brain.

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vic-k
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Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:17 pm Post

Jaysen,
this isn`t you by any chance...is it?
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080722.html
As a professional, you, are your one and only asset. Without integrity you are worthless, but with it, you are priceless.

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Jaysen
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Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:09 am Post

vic-k wrote:Jaysen,
this isn`t you by any chance...is it?
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080722.html

Don't I wish!!!!

If I had that much dance ability I would have 3 kids, not 2.

And how cool would that be?! Travel the world and having FUN!

My life ... blows. At least I have a mac.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 24 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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Wock
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Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:28 pm Post

When I hear about dancing I go back to this video and wonder how this young whipper snapper has the strength to do what it is he does.
http://www.phoenixlords.com/videos/breakdance.php

I mean upper body strength and balance that would make any olympian green with envy!

And he is british I think....
The wheel is turning but the hamster is still dead.

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mary
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Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:24 pm Post

Um - well. I am finally daring to reply.

I love the Lord of the Rings, and have reread it many times. As an adult, I notice different things in it than I did as a child. And it still strikes me as unique in many ways.

First, of course, the languages. I got really irritated when I read the (admittedly very clever) kid's book, Ella Enchanted, and had to cope with the way she wrote Ogrish and other languages. It was just annoying. Tolkien's languages hang together and make sense.

Second, the care and exactness with which he describes nature and the journey within it. You can really feel that you are in this world with the characters.

Third, as Ursula LeGuin pointed out, the "Mrs. Brown" factor. This is a book in which the humble people are the heroes. And that's one respect in which it was really innovative. Most fantasies before this, I believe, involved knights and heroes and "chosen ones". In this regard, the Potter books are a long step backward.

Finally, this is an epic quest of renunciation. It's all about loss and partial victory, and loss as victory. Most of the Tolkien imitators are all about victory and winning - which completely misses the point.

But I have to admit - I love, love, love Scrivener, which is why I'm here. The program's been a big boost to my writing. But I often feel a bit out of place here otherwise; so many people slam literature that I love and praise stuff I've never heard of or can't stand.

Oh, well. We all get along, anyhow, don't we?

re
refusion
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Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:44 am Post

I love LOTR but I couldn't bring myself to possibly read everything that goes with it. Most people only read 'The Hobbit' and 'LOTR'. In addition, all of his notes, debates, lectures and unfinished works have been compiled and published into (18?) companion volumes for what amounts to a life-long study of the universe he created.

It's all more than just a story, that's fer shizzle...
Old Lady: 'The universe rests on the back of a turtle!'
Scientist: 'Ah, but what does the turtle rest on?'
Old Lady: 'Young man, you can't fool me! It's turtles, turtles, turtles all the way down!'

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Jaysen
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Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am Post

refusion wrote:Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty.

What happens when someone steals BOTH your bags? Or maybe mine weren't stolen and I lost them? Does this mean that I am doomed to an eternity of futile attempts at filling a non-existing bag with the content of another non-existing bag?

Thank you so much for this. I must now go and find a bag to carry with me. And this just when snort got me to give up my blankie.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 24 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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refusion
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Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:42 am Post

I think you can pick up combo luck/exprience bag replacement kit at Wal-Mart. Costs around $20 bucks.

Apple is coming out with iBag for OSX as well. You'll have to subscribe to their .Bag service however. :)
Old Lady: 'The universe rests on the back of a turtle!'
Scientist: 'Ah, but what does the turtle rest on?'
Old Lady: 'Young man, you can't fool me! It's turtles, turtles, turtles all the way down!'

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matt
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Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:51 am Post

mary wrote:Oh, well. We all get along, anyhow, don't we?


We do... but perhaps not when I point out that I am in the rare camp that not only dislikes LOTR, but I never liked it, not even as a child.

It's one of those books where I could never understand what all the fuss was about.

da
dafu
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Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:24 am Post

It's one of those books where I could never understand what all the fuss was about.


You have to learn Elvish.

Dave