Forum Rules Draft - Feedback Wanted

ni
nib
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Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:55 pm Post

1. General Forum Rules

1. Be polite.

Isn’t the above enough? Ok, maybe -- Be polite, or else.

2. Technical Support Forum Guidelines and 3. Bug Hunt Forum Guidelines seem fine. They’d have helped me when I first posted. (If I'd read them, that is)

4. Wish List Forum Rules

1. Please take “No” for an answer gracefully. We cannot implement every single suggestion. We’ll usually try to explain why a feature won’t or can’t be implemented, and you are of course welcome to argue your case - we have been known to change our minds - but it’s better to do so without trying to grind us into submission.

The above isn’t sufficient? The idiots who +1 or threaten not buy if.…
Can’t you just ignore them?

Keith, this is your forum and you can do anything you want to with it but why the urge to codify behavior? I rather like the looseness of the existing “rules” (whatever they may be). I'm not aware (in my rather casual perusing of L&L) of really atrocious behavior or Flame Wars. If a person is occasionally rude or insensitive they can be forgiven or ignored, or even banned if need be.

Abraham Lincoln’s greatest speech, “The Gettysburg Address” was only 246 words in length.
The Forum Rules Draft is 1656 words long. But in all fairness, the F.R.D. is twice as good. But is it 6.7 times as good? ;)

Lincoln also said, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt.” So I should shut up now, even though it’s too late.

Btw, I bought Nisus Writer Pro on your recommendation and it is the best WP I've ever used.
And in my pathetic attempt to undo any damage I may have done...Whilst!
My tropical fish stayed the same size for years in a 20 gallon tank: I put them in a new 50 gallon tank and they grew huge. And that’s why I refuse to buy bigger pants.

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KB
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Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:20 pm Post

nib wrote:Btw, I bought Nisus Writer Pro on your recommendation and it is the best WP I've ever used.
And in my pathetic attempt to undo any damage I may have done...Whilst!


Glad you like Nisus! And no damage done at all - the reason I've put these up as a draft for the community to look at is precisely because I want to ensure that we don't come across as trying to "codify" behaviour.

Just to clarify, these rules won't appear when you first sign up or anything like that. They'll just exist somewhere and there will be a link to them at the top of the forum - so we won't force anyone to read them. To be honest the main idea is that I can link to them rather than get shirty myself. While forgiving and ignoring are certainly better policies, I am sadly prone to jump on people when they wind me up or get rude - which is rare in these parts. So it might be better, on those rare occasions, for me to link to a document like this rather than get huffy, as is my wont. :)

andygrunt - the idea is that the rules apply to us as much as to anyone else in terms of being polite. We could pledge to read all post in the Technical Support, Feedback, Wish List and Bug Report areas though (although we couldn't pledge to answer every single one - we do promise to answer e-mails of course). There aren't enough of us to promise to answer every thread, or to read every single post across the whole forum. Likewise we can't pledge a time frame, other than doing our best. (In reality, most posts get answered within hours, but making it an official pledge could exposes us to more abuse rather than less!)

Sean - that's a great link!

Foxtrot - nothing, obviously; I'm in a glass house here, being called Keith.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions so far. It may be that I decide not to add the forum rules after all, or I may prune them massively. Having rules at all may be misjudged, I don't know.

All the best,
Keith
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

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andygrunt
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Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:36 pm Post

KB wrote:the idea is that the rules apply to us as much as to anyone else

Ah, I didn’t get that. Perhaps it’s worth mentioning?

KB wrote:There aren't enough of us to promise to answer every thread, or to read every single post across the whole forum. Likewise we can't pledge a time frame, other than doing our best.

I only included those as random examples. I assumed you’d change them to match what you can do. I’d suggest even something as vague as promising to do your best helps to set the tone though.
Windows 7 Professional, 32 Bit & Mac OS X Lion

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Foxtrot
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Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:15 pm Post

I am not a frequent poster on here as I spend my time looking at software to use to aid my creative writing for when I finally get the muse but I think these forums are great because they are so laid back. I think the only rule should be "Be Polite" and "Be reasonable in your expectations". The only two rules should be...

Too late now on here but I think the Tinderbox forum rule about using a proper name is brilliant and so simple and, I believe, very effective.

"I am sadly prone to jump on people when they wind me up or get rude" and what is wrong with that? If you did that to me it would be because I had said something wrong on your forum about your (great) product - fair enough I think!
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vic-k
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Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:53 pm Post

I could be wrong here (never been known before), but I was under the impression, that aboard this leaky old pirate ship, we'd already established that the only rule necessary, governing crew member behaviour, is: The practices of Pedanticism & Analretentivness, aboard Scrivener, are punishable by, keelhauling and/or walking the plank (weighted down with 57 hardback copies of, 'Strunk & White's Elements of Style'!
Thank you.
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Jaysen
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Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:42 pm Post

Keep in mind I am not really a good source of "reason".

I like this as a concept, but as a user … To much effort to get to the meat which can be simply stated "don't be an arse!!!!!!"

And as to the off topicing of threads -- Putting in a second page minimum won't work. Often the answers are there in one reply post but they conversation starts to develop in the OP post. Take for example an OP that says
poor lost soul wrote:look, I can't figure out how to change the name in the header on my novel which happens to be able cross species hybridization crossing four galaxies.
Can you imagine what would happen to vic-k if he couldn't comment on that one?
Jaysen

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kb
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Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:24 pm Post

I run and moderate a couple of forums myself, and have had to write and amend the rules for each forum. The first thing you need to understand is that 99% of forum users will not read them. It won't matter if they are long or short; it won't matter if they are called rules, guidelines, or a manifesto; and it won't matter if they are written in dry prose, or written using witty word plays with lots of self deprecating jokes.

99% of users will not read them unless you send them a PM after they have broken the rules, saying "Please read the rules." And even then, they'll click on the link, read the first one or two, then click elsewhere.

Your rules should be written to support your moderating actions, and for no other reason. And to this end, brief, catch all, "Be nice to everyone" rules do not work. You need to lay out the 21 dos and don'ts.

I tried the less-is-more approach when it came to forum rules. It only works when you have 5 members, and fails completely when you have 500 or 5000. Just list the rules and move on, secure in the knowledge that they will never be read until you point someone to Rule 15 after they call another forum member a flaming arsehole.

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robertdguthrie
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Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:23 pm Post

Jaysen wrote:Keep in mind I am not really a good source of "reason".
And as to the off topicing of threads -- Putting in a second page minimum won't work.


That was not how I meant to express that idea, though my words are sometimes at cross-purposes to my intent. By saying "make going off-topic by page 2 MANDATORY", I was intending to be funny. You should read the two-page threshold as the greatest number of pages allowable before we pull the OP off topic. If enterprising forum posters want to do so from the first reply on, that would be completely in the spirit of this "rule," though I'm sure waiting until the topic had been adequately addressed would be seen as a kindness.
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JaneK
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Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:25 pm Post

Just received Scrivener yesterday and have done the tutorial. Now decided to join the forums and have read the "rules". Compared with other rules I have read I thought these humorous and to the point. I didn't mind the length. I laughed quite a bit when I read it. It tells me I'm dealing with people with a sense of humour. About Scrivener I'd heard quite a bit about it from various sources and although not used it in earnest yet, it seems to have everything and more I would want in a writing program. I'm looking forward to using is and am going to tell my writer friends about it. :D

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Jaysen
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Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:37 pm Post

As this is page two, I must wonder, is off-topicing a problem to too much collective intellect (lots of ideas) or is it really a courtesy thing? I lean toward the former, as the latter would only really be able to be established through the use of bad language, offensive comments directed at an individual or some other type of loose cannon behavior.
Jaysen

I have a wife and 2 kids that I can only attribute to a wiggle, a giggle, and the realization that she was out of my league so I might as well be happy with her as a friend. 24 years marriage later, I can't imagine life without her. -Me 10/7/09

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Je
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Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:54 pm Post

After reading through it, I think the only real rule remains "be polite." Everything else is pretty much suggestions for generally getting along and/or getting a valuable reply from Keith, Ioa, and the rest of the community. As you say, posting +1 to a wish list request isn't the best way to make friends and influence Scrivener developers, but you're also not saying those posts will be deleted or get the poster banned. That makes it a suggestion, not a rule. So maybe the rules should simply state "attack ideas, not people," "play well with others," and "don't run with scissors." And the rest could come in a separate post along the lines of, "but mommy, nobody wants to play with me" in which you explain that posting +1 is going to make the developer grind his teeth rather than immediately start coding new features.

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Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:22 pm Post

How about Our L&L Coffee House Netiquette. I love this place. Of course, it's as awesome as Scrivener, a unique community. :D
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gr
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Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:33 am Post

.
.
+1


-greg

P.s. 'Manifesto of Preferred Decorum.' Yummmmmm.

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vic-k
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Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:08 pm Post

What the 'ell's all this crap about being nice 'n' polite!? :shock: The place is going to the dogs on a handcart!! Jeeezz!!. tch!tch!
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Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:48 pm Post

KB wrote:Hi all,


Hi.

KB wrote:
  • Is there anything, from your experience on the forums, that you think needs adding?



A brief warning / explanation about Vic-k and his extended family?

Other than that, looks pretty good!
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