connection point for connectors

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lmhinman
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Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:10 pm Post

I think I'm doing something wrong. When I add connected notes, sometimes the connecting line attaches in the correct place (roughly, the center of the end to which the line connects). At other times, the line attaches close to the button or even slightly toward the middle bottom. I've attached an example. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but can't figure out what it is. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
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Science at the Frontiers copy.scap
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AmberV
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Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:11 pm Post

Everything looks okay to me when I open up this file. The attachment point for notes is in the middle of the note, vertically and horizontally speaking, not along any of the edges.
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Ioa Petra'ka
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TomMcIn
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Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:09 pm Post

This placement of the connector ends has been a long standing concern of mine. When you have a long set of destination nodes, the connectors actually cross over the nodes that are closer to the source node. Connecting to the adjacent ends of the source and destination nodes would make the diagrams more readable.

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AmberV
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Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:19 pm Post

We played with a model that used the edges, but it didn't work out perfectly and was just adding clutter, so it was removed for 1.0 and the idea deferred for a later release. We have it on the list to look at again when there is more time to give it the proper treatment it deserves.
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Ioa Petra'ka
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TomMcIn
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Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:17 pm Post

Does "due time" mean weeks, months or years? I would like my documents to look better soon.

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AmberV
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Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:42 pm Post

I can't even say if there will be changes made to how this works, let alone when. I just wanted to let you know it is something we haven't outright rejected.
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Ioa Petra'ka
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TomMcIn
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:00 am Post

Can't see any change over the last months in how connectors can be drawn from one node to another. Still looks like the only option is middle to middle with no edge to edge options so the connectors do not cross over or under other nodes in a list of nodes

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AmberV
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:34 am Post

If there is a software update it will be published on the website and you may get an alert within the software or through the Mac App Store, with an accompanying change log showing what has been added or fixed.
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Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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TomMcIn
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:41 pm Post

How much development effort is going into Scapple?

I really like the free form features in Scapple. I just would like a little more personal control over how the connectors are drawn. A previous reply indicated the developers had implemented something like I would like to try but it was removed from the production version. It seems like it could be an option.

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AmberV
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:20 pm Post

Once we get Scrivener through another release cycle the plan is to look at Scapple again, but I can’t say when that will be as there are two pretty large variables in that equations—I’d also stress as before that I can’t say this feature will ever make the cut. It’s the sort of “fiddly” thing the software was designed to avoid, so really it depends upon whether an implementation that stays out of the way can be found that makes sense.
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Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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TomMcIn
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:34 pm Post

It might be "fiddly" from a developer's viewpoint, but I feel it is important from my user's viewpoint as it would make my diagrams much more obvious and easier to read when connection lines go directly to their destinations and do not disappear behind other nodes.

Do you have a means for users to make comments on the changes that could be included in the next version?

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AmberV
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:54 pm Post

As for the rest, I haven’t made myself clear: it was the user interface that was inelegant and fiddly, that is why it was removed. I’m not speaking from a standpoint of the source code, but how you would have had to have used the feature if we had left it in. It wasn’t adding enough to the overall design, and not achieving the goals you desire, to merit the added complexity to the interface.

Do you have a means for users to make comments on the changes that could be included in the next version?

You’re already speaking with the right person for that. :) I have this stuff all in my notes, as well a few design ideas that would not only address what you are speaking of, but several others usages as well. We may be slow (we aren't a huge software company and we want to get things right rather than spray and pray), but we do listen.
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Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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TomMcIn
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Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:34 pm Post

Thanks for the more complete description of why the feature is not available now. I can hope one of your options make it into Scapple.

De
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Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:38 pm Post

Ooops. I see I should have posted in this thread — just left a rambly post in the Beta forum Features Wish List thread.

Great to have an explanation Amber: thank you, and glad to know you guys are at least thinking about this issue! I've just been trying out Scapple for the first time and struggling with the same problem as Tom: viz. connectors popping out of the top/bottom of notes when any thinking human could see they need to emerge from the sides to be at all visible! Not criticising the 'AI' here : ) Just urging the thought that letting users control this particular aspect is really important — for me, it comes close to making this otherwise fabulous program useless!

Example: I want to do something simple — line up a bunch of notes in a neat stack/column and then draw a bunch of criss-crossing connections to a second column of notes on their right. I need the notes to stay stacked (their original order is an important part of my brainstorming), but I want to show their interconnections. You or I would just draw lines from edge to edge across the gap. Presto! Simple and visible. Scapple insists on connecting the notes through their tops/bottoms with the result that you can't see what's connected to what — intervening notes totally obscure the lines!

Couldn't you just assign notes an additional parameter which users could select: 'connect via top/bottom' v 'connect via sides'? The default setting could remain the centre node, but there would be this possible override where needed. Nothing fancy involving specifying exact anchor points (I can see how that might complicate the UI) — the connections are automatically drawn from the centre point of the edge — but at least you would avoid absurdities like the one I've described above....

BTW, I do understand why Scapple hasn't got much attention lately — you guys have been doing an amazing job with all the epic updates to Scrivener! But thought I'd log this thought with you folks while I think of it, for when you do return to it. You've got a terrific application in Scapple; just needs a bit of fine-tuning....

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AmberV
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Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:23 pm Post

Yeah I guess the idea there is that if the notes are in a stack then they are already implicitly connected to one another by virtue of sharing that common grouping mechanism.

That aside, I would think that even if the connection line went from the side it will still be messy, because they would all then be overlapping each other on the same “rail” alongside the stack, if that makes sense. Sure you might connect two on the left and another two on the right, but it’s still pretty limited in that there are only two sides to work with. I guess another way of putting it would be that this wouldn’t solve a visual issue of drawing connection lines between stacked notes, it would merely move that issue from one side to another. Right now all of the lines overlap in the middle—putting them on the sides would just overlap them on the sides.

Image
On the left: is the top connected to 2 and 3 or just 3? On the right, we can barely even see that 1 and 2 are connected.

I guess overall I don’t know if choosing where the connection line attaches to the note is ever going to make much sense of connecting notes so very close to each other all stacked in a column like that. Again, that they are in a stack is meant to imply they are connected already.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. We’ve got some huge updates to Scrivener in the pipeline, lots of exciting things to share there in time, but we’ll get to Scapple again too.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles