Bandogs

Se
SeeYa
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:45 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:53 pm Post

So, I am an academic user of Scrivener for Windows. I use it to write papers almost exclusively, though I am working on a pretty terrible fiction novel, and slowly compiling a book of my academic writings. But mostly I use it to write papers. It works really, really great for me. I have created a number of templates that are incredibly useful for getting a paper going and that automatically compile into a number of standard academic formats (MLA, APA, Chicago/Turabian etc.) and have created compile formats that give me even more flexibility when trying to get papers out. I plan to write my dissertation in Scrivener. I write excellent papers. I get excellent grades. This causes many of my peers to ask me stuff like, “how do you organize such a complex paper,” or “how do you keep your drafts and revisions straight,” “how come your formatting is always perfect for the required specification,” and so on and such. I then proceed to evangelize Scrivener to them. I encourage them to try the generous trial. I share my templates with them and my compile formats. I teach them how to create a template and a compile format that is specific to the class that they are taking so that once set up all they have to do is write the paper, define some variables in the project and compile replacements section, and then compile their paper into a word doc, have their bib manager format their citations and BOOM, it’s all complete and ready to go again for the next paper, and they can proceed to their next class, and papers are just so much easier. They all buy Scrivener. They may not spend the money for EndNote, and instead opt for something free like Mendeley, even though I was evangelizing EndNote at the same time, but they all get Scrivener. I myself purchased it at full price, rather than getting the academic discount, after trialing it for a short time, just because I thought it was worth every penny and I wanted to support its development. Besides, the price point is so reasonable that it felt like the discount was just being greedy.
I know Scrivener is geared toward novelists and screenwriters primarily, but also know that even with that as its focus, Scrivener is a great tool for academics. However, there are some features that would make academic writing in Scrivener even better than it already is, and it would seem that they would be rather trivial to implement. So, since I knew that V3 was in beta, and I am between semesters, I thought I would see if I could get my hands on the beta, give it a spin, and maybe input some feedback and offer a few suggestions that would hopefully make it even more useful for academic writing; so useful that institutions would possibly bulk license it to provide to their students like they do with NoodleTools, or subsidize it like they do with EndNote. I poked around, found and installed the beta, and played with it. It looks fantastic. Too bad I will never know how it turns out. I will be sticking with Scrivener 1.9, or whatever increment it reaches before KB dumps it for V3 because I am not going to buy V3, no matter how awesome it looks, or how helpful it can be to me. That is because after experiencing V3 for a bit, I came back to this board with the intention of giving feedback and offering some suggestions, critique, and observations. But I am no noob, I didn’t just dive in with my opinions, I searched the board first to make sure that I wasn’t being redundant, and to get a feel for the tone and direction of the current conversations. I was horrified. It was like a train wreck. I couldn’t stop, I read every thread with replies in the Windows board going all the way back to the early part of 2015. What a community of f*ckery. Every post by a Windows user expressing dissatisfaction with the feature set, or requesting more flexibility, or pointing out a bug, or even just offering a suggestion is met by a regiment of Apple infantry relentlessly steamrolling the poster with the equivalent of “F*ck off, if you don’t like it then shut up and get a mac or go somewhere else. Oh yeah, there is nothing else so just f*ck off and like it.” There are three or four posters in particular that provide the most egregious examples. They should have been perma-banned long, long ago. I can only conclude that they are still here because KB endorses this behavior.
So, Keith, is it that you feel that you need to keep these dogs off their chain to deflect any criticism about your product? Is it because you agree with them? Are you just one of those guys that likes to watch chaos and abuse? I don’t know, and I never will, because I am out. I am not giving you any more money to support and encourage this community. I will not be evangelizing your product to my peers anymore, sharing my experience and templates etc. or anything else that indicates that I endorse and appreciate Scrivener. My single lost license of Scrivener 3 is trivial, and so are the likely less than two dozen customers that I, at best, would send your way in the future. And you probably don’t care anyway, because if you did, you wouldn’t be allowing this in the first place. But because you not only allow, but tacitly encourage, this toxic behavior on your boards, you have lost my revenue, and my free evangelization and advertising. Conversely, if anyone asks me about Scrivener directly, I will tell them it’s shite don’t use it. All because you can’t be bothered to chain up your yard dogs when company comes around.

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Sanguinius
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:16 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:40 pm Post

Step 1: Call the behavior of forum members toxic
Step 2: Behave in a toxic way
Step 3: Profit?

Tw
Twolane
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:39 pm
Platform: Windows

Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:27 pm Post

I'll give you one chance at a rewrite to include paragraphs before your final is an F.

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DavidR
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:21 am
Platform: Windows

Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:20 am Post

SeeYa, I spend a lot of time on these forums. I'm a Windows user, and never use Apple products. I like Scrivener, but there are some problems, and I've participated in discussions of them here. No one has ever done anything like what you say to any of my posts, nor have I done so to others. I haven't seen anything resembling the supposedly consistent atmosphere you claim is present.

I'm an academic too, so I'm going to respond to this as I would to an academic presentation: How about a few examples? It's no good spreading generalized derogation and ad hominem accusations. Give some concrete examples, and let the rest of the community debate the merits of your assertions. Otherwise, you're just trolling.
David
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.7
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

What's the difference between a free lance and a loose cannon?

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AmberV
Posts: 21583
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Santiago de Compostela, Galiza
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Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:49 pm Post

If you have a legitimate complaint, then please do lodge it appropriately, with specifics to a moderator. We do listen to reports made with the “Report” button in topics and evaluate them on a case by case basis.

As for what you’ve written here, it seems a bit exaggerated for effect and very vague. We can’t do anything with this, much less attempt to improve the community. I’m sure you can understand that if I click through five random active threads in the Windows beta forum and find not a single Apple user in them, and no vitriol, then I can’t really take your statement seriously when you say that “every” thread is toxic. Why would I bother continuing to validate your claim if it is already five times inaccurate.

At any rate, I don’t know how healthy it is reading many thousands of old posts going back to 2015, as you claim to have. Maybe it’s a good idea to give the forum a bit of a break no matter, on those grounds. That doesn’t sound very healthy. Although we’d love to have your feedback and participation, I wouldn’t want it at the expense of your well being.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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rdale
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:07 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:36 pm Post

<snipped wall of text>
SeeYa wrote: I read every thread with replies in the Windows board going all the way back to the early part of 2015. What a community of f*ckery. Every post by a Windows user expressing dissatisfaction with the feature set, or requesting more flexibility, or pointing out a bug, or even just offering a suggestion is met by a regiment of Apple infantry relentlessly steamrolling the poster with the equivalent of “F*ck off, if you don’t like it then shut up and get a mac or go somewhere else. Oh yeah, there is nothing else so just f*ck off and like it.”

<snipped wall of text>

I'm not sure I see any issues with interactions like that... is it the excessive use of asterisks you're objecting to? :| :?: Also, what's a "bandog"? Never heard of that breed.

AmberV wrote:I don’t know how healthy it is reading many thousands of old posts going back to 2015,


I've probably read a majority of posts going back that far, maybe farther, and I'm in "perfect" mental health now. :twisted:
FKA: robertdguthrie
AKA: R Dale Guthrie, Robert, Mr. Obscure, and "Oh, it's you again".

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AmberV
Posts: 21583
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:30 am
Platform: Mac + Linux
Location: Santiago de Compostela, Galiza
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Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:48 pm Post

rdale wrote:I've probably read a majority of posts going back that far, maybe farther, and I'm in "perfect" mental health now. :twisted:


Oh yes! And make no mistake, I'm perfectly sane as well. :mrgreen:
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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DavidR
Posts: 500
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:21 am
Platform: Windows

Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:23 pm Post

rdale wrote:Also, what's a "bandog"? Never heard of that breed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandog, from I which I offer two quotations:

"Johannes Caius published a book in Latin in 1570, translated into English in 1576 by Abraham Fleming under the title, Of Englishe Dogges, in which he described the Bandog as a vast, stubborn, eager dog of heavy body."

"William Harrison, in his description of England during 1586, describes the type as: '... Mastiff, tie dog, or band dog, so called because many of them are tied up in chains and strong bonds in the daytime, for doing hurt abroad, which is a huge dog, stubborn, uglier, eager, burthenouse of bodie, terrible and fearful to behold and often more fierce and fell than any Archadian or Corsican cur ...'"

Don't think I know anyone like that here, though there is a rather friendly and helpful Airedale. :)
David
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.7
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

What's the difference between a free lance and a loose cannon?