Is Scrivener for Windows Falling Off

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Dekade
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:38 am Post

I was on the L&L website today for the first time in quite a while. I was disturbed by the lack of attention paid towards the Windows OS. Everything seems to be about Mac.

It was like pulling teeth to see the current version of windows, which I never did locate. It appears as though L&L is really focusing on mac. That would be a mistake IMHO. Anyway, I'm not the ones making all the money. I'm only one of the crowd that is giving money to pour into mac. Am I bitter? Yeah, a little bit.

I would like to request some respect for the Windows platform.

Please don't go this route L&L. Please show some respect to Windows. We too are a powerful group of users. Maybe moreso than the mac crowd, who knows. This is not a tirade against mac - I view all computing individuals as equal in the computing world. We all want to make a computer do something for our benefit. I just don't want to see (what I have always perceived as . . .) a respectful entity such as L&L go down the path of displaying (intentional or non-intentional) favoritism toward a chosen OS.

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kewms
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:01 am Post

Well yes, I would expect to see a lot of interest in the Mac version a week after a major update.

So you might have missed the simultaneous announcement of the Windows Scrivener 3 public beta. More information can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40621

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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JimRac
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:37 am Post

Dekade wrote:It was like pulling teeth to see the current version of windows, which I never did locate.

You couldn’t have looked too hard.

From the top of the main L&L page, select Products > Scrivener, then page to the bottom, and you’ll find a big red “Buy Now” button for each of the 3 Scrivener versions, including Windows.

Perhaps that big chip on your shoulder is blocking your vision?

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krastev
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:25 pm Post

JimRac wrote:You couldn’t have looked too hard.

From the top of the main L&L page, select Products > Scrivener, then page to the bottom, and you’ll find a big red “Buy Now” button for each of the 3 Scrivener versions, including Windows.

Perhaps that big chip on your shoulder is blocking your vision?


Don't be rude. :|

What you're pointing out is not a windows 3 version. Windows 3 version is still in beta, and although it is easy to find and download the older 1.9.7 release, it is really hard for the first time visitors to find where to download the beta.

So yeah, Dekade is right. I also had a hard time finding the windows beta.

A good day to you, sir.
Krastev
Scrivener for Windows Version 1.9.8.0
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Testing Scrivener Beta for Windows

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Bridey
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:34 pm Post

Dekade wrote:I was on the L&L website today for the first time in quite a while. I was disturbed by the lack of attention paid towards the Windows OS. Everything seems to be about Mac.


You might enjoy S3 for Windows (and feel the love):

1. http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scriv ... ows-update

2. viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40621

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rdale
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:28 pm Post

krastev wrote:What you're pointing out is not a windows 3 version. Windows 3 version is still in beta, and although it is easy to find and download the older 1.9.7 release, it is really hard for the first time visitors to find where to download the beta.

So yeah, Dekade is right. I also had a hard time finding the windows beta.

Dekade wrote:It was like pulling teeth to see the current version of windows, which I never did locate.


The original poster didn't mention the beta at all. They lamented how hard it was to find the current version. That version is available via two clicks off the main page: http://literatureandlatte.com/

See the big red "BUY NOW" button? Click it, Along the top/middle of the page, under the rather large, dark brown "Buy Scrivener" header/banner, there are links to MacOS, Windows, iOS, and Bundles sub-pages. Along the bottom of that page, there is a link under the heading "Want to try Scrivener?". This is all new information to me; I didn't know any of that until I tried looking for the current version just now.

As for the beta... there's a good reason not to plaster links to the beta version all over the main site... it's a beta. And that beta is not ready for regular use, as per this page: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=40621

The beta is still very much a work in progress, so though we're pleased to give you a chance to start poking around and checking out what's coming, we do not recommend using it for major projects yet. Make regular backups and expect to find bugs!


Why on earth would a company encourage the general public to try out a version that almost certainly has bugs that they themselves think are major enough to endanger important projects?
Last edited by rdale on Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kewms
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:23 pm Post

rdale wrote:Why on earth would a company encourage the general public to try out a version that almost certainly has bugs that they themselves think are major enough to endanger important projects?


Yes, exactly. The existence of the Windows beta is evidence that Scrivener for Windows isn't being abandoned, as the OP seems to imply. But it is not the way we want to introduce ourselves to new users.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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Dekade
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:28 pm Post

JimRac wrote: . . .Perhaps that big chip on your shoulder is blocking your vision?

It is truly very difficult in today's world to write text that cannot be read incorrectly. I tried to make the post non offensive because I knew that there is always a possibility of face value not weathering storms.

I apologize to have offended you with my appearance to have lack of courtesy; and further appearance to display a chip on my shoulder. My mistake was in saying ". . . bitter . . ."

As writers, we are responsible in this world, to make our thoughts acceptable to others. I appreciate the efforts by L & L to having done just that by way of this forum.

Again, I apologize, I was just inquiring as to the mindset of L & L regarding further development of Scrivener period. I have been aware of MAC upgrades, I have been aware of Windows development. I was merely stating that I felt as though there might be trending towards popularizing one OS over the other.

I have always enjoyed the free nature appearance, ethics, and integrity of L&L; I simply felt left out, as I am a Windows user.

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kewms
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:49 pm Post

Scrivener originated on the Mac, and the Mac version has a five year head start over the Windows version. That's just historical fact. But the goal of Windows Scrivener 3 is to fix that and achieve parity between the two platforms.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

De
Dekade
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:55 pm Post

kewms wrote:Scrivener originated on the Mac, and the Mac version has a five year head start over the Windows version. That's just historical fact. But the goal of Windows Scrivener 3 is to fix that and achieve parity between the two platforms.

Katherine

I now understand the history. I thank you for that information. I would never have disowned Scrivener; that said, now I think it is neat L&L saw the need (early on; unbeknownst to me) to infiltrate into the Windows market. Thanks for an outstanding and fun program.

My bitter thought pattern must have flown the coop. I don't know where it went. Guess I don't need it anymore.

Anxious for the Win OS upgrade.

Dean

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JimRac
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:40 pm Post

Dekade wrote:
JimRac wrote: . . .Perhaps that big chip on your shoulder is blocking your vision?

It is truly very difficult in today's world to write text that cannot be read incorrectly. I tried to make the post non offensive because I knew that there is always a possibility of face value not weathering storms.

I apologize to have offended you with my appearance to have lack of courtesy; and further appearance to display a chip on my shoulder. My mistake was in saying ". . . bitter . . ."

As writers, we are responsible in this world, to make our thoughts acceptable to others. I appreciate the efforts by L & L to having done just that by way of this forum.

Again, I apologize, I was just inquiring as to the mindset of L & L regarding further development of Scrivener period. I have been aware of MAC upgrades, I have been aware of Windows development. I was merely stating that I felt as though there might be trending towards popularizing one OS over the other.

I have always enjoyed the free nature appearance, ethics, and integrity of L&L; I simply felt left out, as I am a Windows user.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. It is far more polite and civil than my blunt reply to your OP. :oops:

Dekade wrote:It is truly very difficult in today's world to write text that cannot be read incorrectly.

I have a (admittedly unasked for) suggestion that might help with that.

Suppose that your OP, in its entirety, had been something along the lines of: "I haven't been on the L&L website in quite a while. Can someone please update me regarding L&L's plans for the Windows version of Scrivener?"

That simple question would likely have garnered multiple replies from the genuinely kind-hearted and helpful folk who frequent these forums. (You'd be hard-pressed to find a forum with a better group.) They probably would have directed you to Keith's blog and/or his various posts and/or provided excerpts of same. And your question would have been answered, and any concerns you have alleviated.

So my (unrequested) suggestion is: If you have a question, the most efficient way to get it answered is simply to ask it. And leave out all that other stuff. :)

Thank you again.
Jim

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Dekade
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Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:52 pm Post

I had to think long and hard about how I wanted to add to my thread, or, if I wanted to elaborate/add at all. Upon purposely (with premeditated intention) revisiting the L&L home page ... I have decided to also revisit my original post topic.

Despite my original post being poor in structure there is ample reason to revisit the overall topic. So, I will proceed. Disclaimer: If anyone allows their defenses to get rattled over any part of this particular reply ... I apologize. Facts are facts, and I point out website shortcomings with full respect to all. Do I have credentials to do such an analysis? . . . Read on.

Go to the L&L home page http://www.literatureandlatte.com/

Do not click on anything.

Point #1 - Scrolling only, there is zero reference to Windows.
Point #2 - Next ... Click on "Products" at the top . . . zero emphasis on windows. Mac is obvious.
Point #3 - Next ... Still residing on the website results of Point #2 click on "Visit Our Store" . . . zero emphasis on windows. Mac is obvious
Point #4 - Next ... Again, still residing on the website results of Point #2 click on "Scrivener" clickable link; (to the left of the Scapple clickable link) . . . Finally, there is an easily overlooked one liner - Scrivener 3 is now available for macOS and will be a free update for all new Windows customers. In itself that is a confusing one liner when quickly read.

Now, before I provide elaboration, and direction on where I'm going, allow me to state whether or not I have credentials that allow for further assessing and support towards the overall topic of my original post. (Again, emphasizing that I did not do a good job of original post presentation.)

Having started with $11 to our name (in the basement of our USA home) in 1984 my wife and I proceeded to create, over the next 30 years, a multi tens of millions of dollars international medical company. We wore all the hats in the beginning years. That said, image was our main focus - to create an appearance that we were bigger than we actually were and muffle the fact that we would eventually be as big as we appeared. Our marketing succeeded. Our image became our industry's "standard".

Now, one final thing. I said the above paragraph ONLY to provide a credential. I have no need in life to flaunt achievement. I have received my accolades over the years and seek not to acquire any further accolades via self awarded brownie points.

Back to the original intention of this post reply.

Point #5 - Upon landing at the L&L home page there is no light bulb at all clarifying Scrivener as being cross platform.
Point #6 - That is a marketing failure.
Point #7 - Taking for granted that people know Scrivener is cross platform employs the old acronym ... "Assume" ... assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
Point #8 - It does not matter AT ALL how little the number of clicks required to conclude that Scrivener can be used also on Windows OS's, or, what version (for that matter) is currently available.
Point #9 - IT GREATLY MATTERS as to whether or not the home page, in itself, can "MAKE A SALE"
Point #10 - SCRIVENER, currently launching the explosive and fulfilling Chapter 3 for Mac, and . . . complimenting the same accolade . . . soon to be released - Chapter 3 for Windows. Both OS's providing DYNAMIC solutions for the amateur writer through to the seasoned writer. A software for all genres of writing requirements from novels to corporate presentations. A software that never stops improving.
Point #11 - When a SALE is CLOSED without any clicking the following occurs - clicking on infra website links stirs up the inner fires of anticipation leading to the actual outlay of funds towards the shopping cart. Irritations, limitations, and unsupported disappointments are FULLY SQUELCHED when a SALE is CLOSED upon first observation.

In closing - as we all know:

1 - The world is very fast paced. Clicking is not the slow down solution
2 - The first 250 words of a novel sells the rest of the book

My eyes do not see any harm/offense done in this post reply. Should any harm/offense be taken . . . I deeply, deeply, deeply apologize.

I seek only to take pleasure from experiencing the advancement and unparalleled success of SCRIVENER being the "industry standard" for standalone computer writing software. Maybe someday it will even be available as a live networking editing solution for collaborative writing groups, agents, publishing houses, and think tanks.

Kind Regards to ALL,

Dekade

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Silverdragon
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Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:52 pm Post

Now that your point is clarified, I have to agree that the new website appears to do L&L a disservice as far as the visibility of any of their products besides Scrivener 3 Mac. I was struck by it when the new site went live, but said nothing due to to the fact that I have the diplomacy and grace of a charging rhinoceros in such matters. :D

OTOH, I also believe that this must be a primary concern for L&L, and that they are checking the website traffic and sell-through as carefully as any other business. I will therefore leave them to it, trusting they will make mid-course corrections as needed.
So you know where I'm coming from:
  • I'm a user, not an L&L employee.
  • Mac Scrivener 3.0.2, MacBook Air 11, MacOS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
  • IOS Scrivener 1.1.5, iPhone 6s, iPad Air 2, iOS 11.4

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kewms
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Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:59 pm Post

Attached please find two screenshots, both from the main Scrivener product page. http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

Products1.png
Products1.png (18.59 KiB) Viewed 1651 times


Products2.png
Products2.png (120.17 KiB) Viewed 1651 times


I'm not sure what your latest missive is trying to accomplish, though. Are you trying to reassure yourself about the future of Windows Scrivener? I thought we had that conversation upthread? Or is your goal to critique the site design from the point of view of a Windows user?

If the latter, I should point out that we *want* people to explore a bit, make use of the trial, figure out what Scrivener does before putting down money to buy it. Impulse purchases tend to lead to angry emails to the support team about "missing" features that we never promised in the first place. It is *not* a goal to Make The Sale with the front page of the site.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

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Silverdragon
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Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:23 pm Post

Exactly, Katherine. As I said, I presume you all are watching statistics and making sure the website does its job from your point of view. It is literally not my business, and I'll leave you all to run it.
So you know where I'm coming from:
  • I'm a user, not an L&L employee.
  • Mac Scrivener 3.0.2, MacBook Air 11, MacOS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
  • IOS Scrivener 1.1.5, iPhone 6s, iPad Air 2, iOS 11.4