Insert footnotes with shortcut can only go up to 15 footnotes

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jinxray
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Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:31 pm Post

Bridey wrote:I noticed I couldn’t insert footnotes inside words, so the spaces made no difference.

For me, this was fixed by going to Apple > System Preferences > Trackpad and deselecting Tap to click. Footnotes then work perfectly. Strangely, even after reselcting Tap to click, they still work as they should.

But if anyone else is using a trackpad, the solution above might work.

Tap To Click.jpg


Well, this sure is…odd.

Anyway, I think I have come to a simple workaround: change the footnote marker from a single asterisk to an asterisk and a space… and it's seems to be working so far.

Now I'm crossing my fingers and hope it won't mess the thing up with a bunch of unwanted spaces.
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Bridey
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Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:15 pm Post

Wonder if the invisible separator would work...
Unicode: U+2063, UTF-8: E2 81 A3

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xiamenese
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Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:25 pm Post

I'm re-opening this thread as I have just had a bit of time to set up a project in Chinese to test it. I copied some Chinese text I have in another project and then set about creating random inspector footnotes. Firstly, as I suspected, the problem is almost certainly triggered when using Pinyin input, so all of you others, even though the text in your editor was in Chinese, if your input system was English, not Chinese, I can well believe you didn't encounter it.

What I discovered in my test project, which consists of lots of short paragraphs, is that the situation is perhaps even more complex and worrying. I haven't even got as far as 15 footnotes because:

(1) If there is already a footnote in a given paragraph, Ctrl-Cmd-8 does not create a new footnote, but takes you to the text of the existing footnote, highlighting it all for removal or editing. On the other hand, with the cursor in a subsequent paragraph, Ctrl-Cmd-8 creates a new footnote as expected.
(2) If I go back and modify the text of a much earlier footnote, then move the cursor to a different paragraph which already has a footnote, it behaves like (1) but goes to the text of the footnote that has just been edited.
(2) If I go back and modify the text of a much earlier footnote, then take the cursor down to a new paragraph below all the ones with footnotes, sometimes the new footnote is created immediately after the one just edited, but sometimes it is created where it should be.

So, @jinxray, can you confirm if you also see this behaviour.

Incidentally, having done all that, if I then switch languages to English, and try to enter a new footnote, it still misbehaves.

I will see if I have enough text to insert more than 15 footnotes, but for the moment, my time is up.

:)

Mark
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jinxray
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Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:52 pm Post

xiamenese wrote:I'm re-opening this thread as I have just had a bit of time to set up a project in Chinese to test it. I copied some Chinese text I have in another project and then set about creating random inspector footnotes. Firstly, as I suspected, the problem is almost certainly triggered when using Pinyin input, so all of you others, even though the text in your editor was in Chinese, if your input system was English, not Chinese, I can well believe you didn't encounter it.

What I discovered in my test project, which consists of lots of short paragraphs, is that the situation is perhaps even more complex and worrying. I haven't even got as far as 15 footnotes because:

(1) If there is already a footnote in a given paragraph, Ctrl-Cmd-8 does not create a new footnote, but takes you to the text of the existing footnote, highlighting it all for removal or editing. On the other hand, with the cursor in a subsequent paragraph, Ctrl-Cmd-8 creates a new footnote as expected.
(2) If I go back and modify the text of a much earlier footnote, then move the cursor to a different paragraph which already has a footnote, it behaves like (1) but goes to the text of the footnote that has just been edited.
(2) If I go back and modify the text of a much earlier footnote, then take the cursor down to a new paragraph below all the ones with footnotes, sometimes the new footnote is created immediately after the one just edited, but sometimes it is created where it should be.

So, @jinxray, can you confirm if you also see this behaviour.

Incidentally, having done all that, if I then switch languages to English, and try to enter a new footnote, it still misbehaves.

I will see if I have enough text to insert more than 15 footnotes, but for the moment, my time is up.

:)

Mark


Hi Mark,

Yes, I think you were describing the problem right, and it has nothing to do with the amount of the footnotes.

What I can say with absolute certainty at the moment is that the problem was triggered by the lack of space between the current insert point and the nearest old footnote. And that's why it's happening almost solely in Chinese text, because it's a language that normally doesn't involve spaces.

Note that I was trying out a makeshift fix simply by adding a space after the asterisk in the "footnote marker" setting, now my markers look something like this. I can confirm that the extra space solved the problem, so far I have added some 70 notes with no problem.

Hope it helps.

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xiamenese
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Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:07 pm Post

Hi,

Thanks for your answer. I had read your previous post saying that you had solved the problem by putting a (invisible, following @bridey's suggestion?) space after the marker, but having said I'd look into it further, I felt I should do so. I am not a fluent Chinese writer, but I do use Scrivener in Chinese as I collaborate with a number of Chinese translator friends, so in that respect I felt I could match your experience more closely.

Perhaps Keith will pick up this thread again, but whether he can do anything to solve the underlying problem or not, I have no idea. I guess it will depend on whether the footnote marker code is his code, or provided by the black box of Apple's text-kit.

I have just thought of another test I could make; I'll do that and post back.

:)

Mark
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xiamenese
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Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:17 pm Post

Me again! :D

While I was writing my last post, I thought to myself that one test I could do was to see how NWP handles footnotes in Chinese text. NWP is based on the same text engine as Scrivener, though Nisus have modified it far more than Keith has. As I couldn't remember whether I'd ever used footnotes extensively in Chinese texts in NWP, I compiled my test project to RTF and opened it in NWP. I then started adding footnotes in sentences which already had footnotes from the Scrivener project.

In NWP, I found I could add new footnotes like that, or anywhere in the text without problem, and that the numbering reflected the changes properly—the only issue being the style of the number references in the footnotes as they are styled non-superscripted in my NWP stylesheet, whereas the compiled reference numbers from Scrivener are superscripted.

So clearly, Nisus have found a way to put footnote markers between characters in a string without requiring a space, so, with any luck, when he has time, Keith might find the solution. :)

Mark

EDIT: As a further corollary to this, I've just opened my test project in the current beta of Windows Scrivener 3, and it is exhibiting similar problems. I'll post that in the Windows Beta-testing forum:

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=50208
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xiamenese
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:24 pm Post

Final (I hope) post from me on this. On further experimenting, the solution is the one @jinxray found. I don't know if s/he has tried compiling, but fortunately, although the markers in the Scrivener project include a space, in the compiled text there is no space … makes sense when you think of it, as the space is part of the marker which is replaced with the footnote number on compiling.

So the issue is solved for the user, at least as far as I'm concerned. If Keith feels he should work out how to set things up so that Chinese (and possibly other languages, particularly Japanese and Korean) users don't need to include the space in the marker, that is his call.

:)

Mark
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jinxray
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:54 pm Post

xiamenese wrote:Final (I hope) post from me on this. On further experimenting, the solution is the one @jinxray found. I don't know if s/he has tried compiling, but fortunately, although the markers in the Scrivener project include a space, in the compiled text there is no space … makes sense when you think of it, as the space is part of the marker which is replaced with the footnote number on compiling.

So the issue is solved for the user, at least as far as I'm concerned. If Keith feels he should work out how to set things up so that Chinese (and possibly other languages, particularly Japanese and Korean) users don't need to include the space in the marker, that is his call.

:)

Mark


Thank you for following this issue with such patience, Mark.

Yes, I had a little test with the compilation result to make sure the solution won't mess the final rich text version up with a bunch of unwanted spaces. So far, so good.

But, maybe I'm being paranoid, I do feel uncomfortable with so many "*+space" inserted in my text, and I hope there can be a better way to do it.

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xiamenese
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:02 pm Post

jinxray wrote:
xiamenese wrote:<snip!>


Thank you for following this issue with such patience, Mark.

Yes, I had a little test with the compilation result to make sure the solution won't mess the final rich text version up with a bunch of unwanted spaces. So far, so good.

But, maybe I'm being paranoid, I do feel uncomfortable with so many "*+space" inserted in my text, and I hope there can be a better way to do it.

Thanks received with pleasure, but not really necessary. :)
I wouldn't be paranoid about it if I were you; just think of it as the footnote marker, and the little extra space—though perhaps you are using Chinese as your interface language and have inserted a Chinese,character-sized space, which would get on my nerves too—is just a display issue while in Scrivener and is resolved on compiling. This is how it appears on my 13" rMBP screen.

Screenshot 2018-01-09 18.53.57.png
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That said, I agree that it would be nice not to have to use this work-around, but it's up to Keith, if he picks up this thread, to decide if and when he wants to try to find a better solution. That it is possible is shown by Nisus Writer Pro, but they have a much bigger team of programmers and are developing a classic word-processor, without the other highly complex features of Scrivener.

:)

Mark
EDIT: Just checked back, and you haven't used a Chinese space, though the ones in your screenshot looks bigger than mine. I think that's down to your underlying Roman font. Mine is Adobe Garamond Pro; yours is clearly something different. :)
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