Current line highlighting?

Th
Thijzo
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Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:59 pm Post

KB wrote:I'll compromise: if enough people are still complaining about this in six months' time, I'll consider making it optional.


Oh. That's a bit disappointing considering the little amount of work involved for a fix (change one variable). Maybe you're right and maybe we have to get used to it.

But I for one genuinely dislike it. It distracts me and now I have to look at it for four hours a day. There's a lot of stuff that distracts me, that's why I was in love with the fullscreen, distraction-free mode. There are a number of posts on this in this forum, so this is a thing for at least some of your users.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I do like a lot of the other changes and added options.
Last edited by Thijzo on Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ki
Kinsey
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Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 pm Post

There have been less than 10 complainants so far (here on the forum). The offer to wait six months and see how many complaints there are is more than reasonable. But count me as one vote for retention.

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ighulme
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Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:59 pm Post

I've set it to have the highlight the same colour as the page, so that I just get the border.

It's uglier than using a colour, but I couldn't find a colour that didn't jump out now that a border is applied.

It doesn't really bother me though. But if I had the option, I would turn the border off.
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Thijzo
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Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:02 pm Post

Yeah, that doesn't sound like a stupid idea. I'll try, maybe it helps.

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auxbuss
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:13 pm Post

Kinsey wrote:The offer to wait six months and see how many complaints there are is more than reasonable.

Why is it reasonable? An assertion is not fact.

The fact is that there's been a change of behaviour that, so far, no-one has justified. Perhaps Keith has a pile of requests for this change. If that's the case, then so be it. At the moment, this appears to be a random change that has resulted in a loss of functionality to S2 users. And for some reason -- again, I have no idea why -- Keith will not revert it.

I'm actually quite sad at this change and the subsequent refusal to revert it. It's a small thing, to be sure -- irrelevant to most -- but it for me it's an indicator of values, which is why I'm sad about it.

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Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:01 pm Post

auxbuss wrote:
Kinsey wrote:The offer to wait six months and see how many complaints there are is more than reasonable.

Why is it reasonable? An assertion is not fact.

The fact is that there's been a change of behaviour that, so far, no-one has justified. Perhaps Keith has a pile of requests for this change. If that's the case, then so be it. At the moment, this appears to be a random change that has resulted in a loss of functionality to S2 users. And for some reason -- again, I have no idea why -- Keith will not revert it.

I'm actually quite sad at this change and the subsequent refusal to revert it. It's a small thing, to be sure -- irrelevant to most -- but it for me it's an indicator of values, which is why I'm sad about it.


I think it's reasonable based on the response here on the forums. Keith and the support team are obviously best placed to judge the number of users who are, like you, affected to such an extreme extent.

The rest of your post is not reasonable. The border is not a loss of functionality, it is a change of appearance in line highlighting. There are many changes to Scriv3; are you really suggesting that the developer justify every single one based on every complaint received here? Moreover, how on earth does this change reflect 'values'? It's a design choice. Anyway, best of luck with your writing, I hope you manage to find an appearance in Scriv3 that suits you.

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devinganger
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:48 am Post

Thijzo wrote:That's a bit disappointing considering the little amount of work involved for a fix (change one variable).


It's a lot more than that, though:

You have to add the unit test for the code.
You have to add another variable to track that preference and make sure it's correctly written/read in the program/project. Depending on how the preference save/load code is written, you may have to make sure this is added into those chunks of code.
You have to add the label and control to an existing UI. This includes tasks like making sure that the tab ordering is properly adjusted, etc.
You have to add the label text resource so it can be localized, and make sure that resource is localized in the existing translations.
You have to run back through all the general testing to ensure that introducing this "one variable" hasn't somehow broken something else.
You have to document the change and make sure the Windows team is aware of the change.
You have to add it to the Help.
You have to add it to the manual.
You may need to add it to the tutorial.
You may need to add it to the "transitioning from Scrivener 2" specific tutorial.
You may need to include it in a blog post.
You will definitely need to mention it in a forum post.

Any time you say "just" about software, it's a good bet that you're about to badly underestimate the level of effort and time involved to properly implement it.
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Thijzo
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:25 am Post

Any time you say "just" about software, it's a good bet that you're about to badly underestimate the level of effort and time involved to properly implement it.


I was kinda banking on someone to do this. It's the reason I'm hesitant to participate in forums in general. Always these ad hominem comments. Always the ones knowing better.

But, here we go: I am a developer, I worked on three released apps and games (build in our proprietary engine in C#). I actually do know exactly how much effort it would take to make this optional (although, way less than you're describing if the coding was done in an efficient way).

I was talking about removing the line. That really takes just a few seconds, since it's really just changing a single variable.

Sigh,

But hey, I'm getting used to it by now, so all is fine. But please, be nice, do not assume.

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Thijzo
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:35 am Post

The rest of your post is not reasonable. The border is not a loss of functionality, it is a change of appearance in line highlighting.


Again, do not assume. For some people, this does feel like a loss of functionality, even though others may deem that as a complete overreaction. Everyone's brain works differently. Personally, I'm getting used to the line, but feel strongly it shouldn't have been there.

However, there are people who will not be able to get used to it. That's not their fault. An app they were using on daily basis is suddenly rendered almost unusable (in the most extreme cases). I do believe these people have all the right in the world to complain about this change in a paid update. There's nothing unreasonable about that. Even if they keep complaining until there is a fix.

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devinganger
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:42 am Post

Thijzo wrote:
Any time you say "just" about software, it's a good bet that you're about to badly underestimate the level of effort and time involved to properly implement it.


But please, be nice, do not assume.


My response wasn't an attack, I'm not sure why you felt it was. You and I both know it's not just as simple as tweaking a line of code, but many people who read here *don't* know that and don't always know that what looks like a simple request is anything but. I think it's a good goal to helping people understand that software engineering is work and there are a lot of moving parts,
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Thijzo
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:46 pm Post

Okay, fair enough. You're right.

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ptr
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Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:56 pm Post

The problem isn’t the line per se., it’s just that it didn’t go quite far enough to be a true enhancement. Whenever this happens, great ideas become obstacles rather than stepping stones.

For both programming and use, the simplest solution is to allow the line to be independently-coloured. It can then be fine-tuned to taste, or eliminated by making it the same colour as either the page or the current line.

In my case, I’d be inclined to make it a lighter shade of the current line and thus a highlight of the highlight. I would however make it such a compromise between the page and current line colour, that a seamless gradation, or fade, was produced.

Aside from the psychological-response, the difference in opinion over the current greyscale implementation will almost certainly be found to hinge on two things: the colour chosen by each user for the current line and their individual sensitivity to contrast. Optically, Grey always assumes the opposite hue to that against which it is placed. Depending on the current line colour, this effect will be less aggravating to some than others. However, some are also more sensitive than others to contrast and this renders greater sentience in this context, arguably more valid than its lack. While some may have little problem, others will be extremely aggravated, not so much as an emotional response in the first instance, but as the unavoidable byproduct of the way their visual processing-system handles the information.

Then there’s the Psychological aspect: putting things in boxes decommissions creativity. This is the worst affective response one wants when using a creative tool. The more a box is sensed at the focal-point of thought—the current line—the worse its effect will be.

The combination of all of the above, is why there’s so much heat over what is to some, such a seemingly incidental adjustment to a minor feature, when there’s a boatload of enhancements elsewhere.

I’m a retired Graphic Design and Photography Teacher. The Golden Rule I coined and continually emphasised to my students was: “If it doesn’t help, it hurts”.

For my own part, the effect is like having a piece of grit in my eye, or a rock in one shoe. While 99% may be just fine, that one percent of discomfort permeates the whole experience.

In this case, ‘Less is [most certainly] more’.

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Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:25 pm Post

Reasons for:

1. Now that "Fixed width" is the default for text, and given that fixed width margins are not part of the text and thus cannot show line highlight, it looks a little odd for a line highlight with no border to be floating in the middle of the viewable area.

2. I like it.

Reasons against (summation):

1. Change.

:D
"You can't waltz in here, use my toaster, and start spouting universal truths without qualification."

pt
ptr
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Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm Post

KB wrote:Reasons for:

1. Now that "Fixed width" is the default for text, and given that fixed width margins are not part of the text and thus cannot show line highlight, it looks a little odd for a line highlight with no border to be floating in the middle of the viewable area.

2. I like it.

Reasons against (summation):

1. Change.

:D

Additional Reasons against (extended summation):
2. Visual Incongruity
3. Lack of Graphic-refinement (elegance)
4. Genuine visual discomfort
5. A block to creative-flow

:wink:

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Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:40 pm Post

KB wrote:Reasons against (summation):

1. Change.

Change is fine when there's a purpose behind it.
Last edited by auxbuss on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.