Current line highlighting?

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Silverdragon
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Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:36 pm Post

Keith, you've probably been hearing negative feedback on the line highlight border since beta testing started. You're tired of hearing it, and have no present intention of changing it. I get it. Nonetheless, you've stated that if you're still getting complaints in six months, you'll consider changing it. I am therefore going on record with my own reaction.

The change in current line highlighting prompted me to change up my editor preferences thus:

Scrivener 2: I liked it.
Screenshot 2017-12-06 14.51.08.png
Screenshot 2017-12-06 14.51.08.png (49.48 KiB) Viewed 323 times

Scrivener 3: Dear Lord, that's ugly.
Screenshot 2017-12-06 14.57.26.png
Screenshot 2017-12-06 14.57.26.png (32.66 KiB) Viewed 323 times

I tried doing without it for a while, but eventually switched to the following colour scheme which is tolerable:
Screenshot 2017-12-06 15.00.42.png
Screenshot 2017-12-06 15.00.42.png (27.75 KiB) Viewed 323 times

The darker main background helps "take the edge off" the border, you should pardon the term. I strongly prefer a low-contrast editor environment, and take my colours from Ethan Schoonover's Solarized (http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized) palette. If I could change the main text default colour to a dark grey instead of black without causing eventual output problems, I would. (Tried it; it was a pain.)

I'm not going to threaten to leave Scrivener and take all 170 of my blog followers with me. ;) And I get that making the hard border optional is probably more effort than it's worth. But if I (and the others who have protested) can't persuade you to change it back, might I at least encourage you to consider making the line highlight a bit wider? In the rare texts in which I'm using styled text extensively, it's a bit hard to spot the little tag end which sticks out past the style background.
So you know where I'm coming from:
• I'm a user, not an L&L employee.
• Mac Scrivener 2.9 & 3.0.0, MacBook Air 11, MacOS 10.12.6 (Sierra)
• iOS Scrivener 1.1.5, iPhone 6s, iPad Air 2, iOS 11.2

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Pavel
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Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:10 pm Post

I'll be back in six months to re-plead that this line "feature" is nails on the chalkboard for me.
I've long embraced change - towards subtle, elegant programs that get out of my way and allow me to concentrate. To be in the "zone" so to speak.

After using scriv 3 for a while now, I've found that I can tolerate this line, but really wish I didn't have to. So now it's a test to see if I can find writing contentment with it turned off. So far I find that it's not as nice as having a subtle visual aid in Scrivener 2 and turned off I find it takes a moment longer to find my place so version three is ten steps forward - with one stone in my shoe. :)

I do find also, and I've only discovered this today, that if I turn off the highlight current line in composition mode that I'm then ly lost. I use scrivener for school and as such read and compare pages as much as write. In composition mode so far, I'm completely lost without the line highlight. Maybe If I tweak the cursor color.

People are different. Some can study or read with music playing. I go mad. My wife is content to manage all her papers using only M$ Office. I prefer less suffering. Many people like all the constant notifications that new operating systems provide - I turn them all off or I start to scream at the computer.

To extract my revenge upon Keith and who ever else colluded on this new line highlighting I am planning to find their cars, tune the stereo to heavy metal and turn up the volume. Then I'm going to take out the Crazy glue - make it permanent! :)

Well I exaggerate of course. Such a soothing driving environment could have consequences. I wouldn't want version four of Scrivener with an even fatter border, set to strobe to heavy metal, probably in neon only, and no way off.

"New", "Improved", with "extra bling". It could have been worse. But to be so close to sublime. So close, yet .... :twisted:
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br
brookter
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Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:23 pm Post

Pavel (and any others who are finding this a difficult issue),

There is a way to get what appears to be a borderless highlight line in both editor and composition mode, but it needs a bit of fiddling.

The basic process is simple but there's a fair bit of trial and error involved to get the right colours. E.g. for the Editor itself

1. In Preferences > Appearance > Main Editor > Colors > Current Line Highlight click on the colour sample and choose the colour of the highlight line.

2. In the same panel, choose Editor and click on the colour sample. This time, instead of picking a colour, use the 'eye dropper' icon at the bottom of the colour dialogue. It will turn into a magnified circle of what's underneath it. Move the tool to the highlight line in your text and then onto the border -- which magnified is a thick line. Click on the border — you've now given the paper exactly the same colour as the border, which then disappears...

3. Repeat until you find something that you can live with.

It's the same process for composition mode, of course.

You'll have to play around before you find the combination that suits or (if you can find one at all — this is personal taste, after all), but it may be worth trying. You need to be using either the colour wheel or the spectrum panel to give you the necessary range of colours.

This is the main editor after a couple of minutes' worth of playing.

Screenshot 2017-12-10 21.09.44.png
Screenshot 2017-12-10 21.09.44.png (213.8 KiB) Viewed 279 times


and this Composition mode.
Screenshot 2017-12-10 21.22.14.png
Screenshot 2017-12-10 21.22.14.png (142.28 KiB) Viewed 279 times


NB: Don't judge it by the colours I've used here... the screenshots are just to illustrate the principle (and my wife says I have no sense of colour, so be warned....)

The highlight line doesn't really bother me, but it may be worth trying if you don't like it.

HTH.

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KB
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Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:27 pm Post

Silverdragon wrote:Scrivener 3: Dear Lord, that's ugly.


That's *much* nicer! Love it.

auxbuss wrote:Change is fine when there's a purpose behind it.


Great! Glad you're on board at last. ;)
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bschlagel
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:31 am Post

Hey! First of all, major props to the L&L team for Scrivener 3, it's an awesome update! Loving just about everything about it so far. As you may have guessed, the new highlighting style is one little exception ;)

That's not super helpful in and of itself but I did want to add to the tally of those who strongly preferred how highlighting looked previously. I don't think this is simple change aversion, because I usually love change, and am the type to happily spend hours reading software manuals and playing around with settings tweaks and learning how everything works. So I'll try to briefly give a couple concrete reasons and suggestions for improvement here.

1) I think the border is an unnecessary distraction, and at odds with the more 'flat' design direction MacOS / Mac apps have evolved towards lately. It also makes it a lot more noticeable how the highlight is not vertically centered over the selected text line, but rather extends from (and touches) the descenders of the current line, to the descenders of the line above. To me, this gives a kind of cramped feeling.

2) As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, having the highlight not extend much beyond the left / right margins of the text makes it harder to immediately spot when scanning the edge of a long block of text, and also is just visually distracting. I just took screenshots of Scrivener 2 and it looks like even when "fixed width" was set, the highlight extended all the way to the background edge, which (imho) was a lot cleaner look. In Scriv 3 the highlight seem more like a block, less like a line, if that makes sense.

Quick mockup — I'd suggest something like this, extending the full width of the editor no matter the fixed text width:

scriv3-nohighlights-default-crop.jpg
scriv3-nohighlights-default-crop.jpg (106.95 KiB) Viewed 201 times


Alternatively (if that feels too extreme) perhaps at least extending the full width of the margin, as in this example where there's a background color set:

scriv3-nohighlights-bg-crop.jpg
scriv3-nohighlights-bg-crop.jpg (101.08 KiB) Viewed 201 times


I hope this is helpful — I hesitated to write this because I really do appreciate all your hard work on this and if I were to catalog my praises for your development efforts here they would far outweigh this small point of critique! But as others have mentioned, this seemingly small thing irked me enough to disable the feature, and I thought I may as well take a few minutes to try to argue for a change here, at least someday :D

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KB
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:05 am Post

Thanks for the kind words (and for feedback that eschews hyperbole). Your first example isn't possible because the large margins around the text are not part of the text itself, but of the scrolling view behind it - the line highlight has to be part of the text area. This is one of the main reason for the change, in fact. I don't want coloured margins around the text by default - I want it all white and worked hard to ensure that clicking in the margins would at least send the clicks to the text etc - and having a borderless highlight just floating without going to the edges does not look right at all. A bordered highlight allows it to float without looking odd, and it also ensures the line highlight cannot be confused for a rich text highlight. (It wasn't just a random change as some seem to assume!)
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pigfender
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:09 pm Post

I'm surprised you are all concerned about the border on the highlight, when the real evil here is that the highlight line isn't centred vertically on the text. :wink: :D

Not that voting is a thing (down with democracy :P ), but I like the border.
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AmberV
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:09 pm Post

That’s not exactly a new condition though, is it? ;)

Image

Note the box extends from the descender of the previous line to the descender of the current line, vertically. If it were any larger than it would overlap other lines.
.:.
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KB
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:23 pm Post

Indeed, the line uses the macOS text system's notion of a line. There's no other way of doing it.
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pigfender
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:53 pm Post

Notion Of A Line, the new album by OS Text System, available in shops now. 12 highly emotive tracks, including the chart-topping hits There’s No Other Way, Descender To Descender, and (Not Exactly A) New Condition.

D5008BC4-34B5-4805-B25F-516A8DBFC9DC.jpeg
D5008BC4-34B5-4805-B25F-516A8DBFC9DC.jpeg (535.23 KiB) Viewed 150 times
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SarsenLintel
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:33 pm Post

pigfender wrote:Notion Of A Line, the new album by OS Text System.


:lol: :D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol: :D

pigfender wins the thread.


Edit to be on topic - I'm now completely used to the bordered highlight. In fact I think I prefer it. In Scriv 2, late in the day when Night Shift turns on, the highlight could be hard to distinguish, especially when it was at the top of the editor next to the reddish locked header bar - no chance of that with the border.
Last edited by SarsenLintel on Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KB
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 pm Post

pigfender wrote:Notion Of A Line, the new album by OS Text System, available in shops now. 12 highly emotive tracks, including the chart-topping hits There’s No Other Way, Descender To Descender, and (Not Exactly A) New Condition.

D5008BC4-34B5-4805-B25F-516A8DBFC9DC.jpeg


Superb! I'm all for songs about the text system. I really wanted to use "Textual Healing" as a slogan for Scrivener 3, but oddly no one else liked it...
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Pavel
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:44 pm Post

I too appreciate all of the efforts that have gone into this release (but what's wrong with hyperbole - I've seen British newspapers :D )

It might sound a bit confused but I bought scrivener 3 just because I believe in supporting great software - despite the fact that I'm planning to stick with version 2 instead, at least for the next long while until I get time to get fluent with all the ways of scriv 3.

I have noticed that each time I now launch version two, it requires activation all of a sudden and then after using v2 and going to tinker with 3 again - same thing, it requires activation even though it was activate ten minutes prior. If I launch v3 twice in succession, no activation, thank goodness, only it seems to phone home upon a switch between versions.

Is this how it's supposed to work or is it abnormal? Is the activation server going to get fed up with me soon?
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SarsenLintel
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:57 pm Post

Pavel wrote:Is this how it's supposed to work or is it abnormal? Is the activation server going to get fed up with me soon?


The instructions for running V2 and V3 without having to activate every time are in the Upgrade Guide: http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scriv ... date-guide

(they're also on the forums somewhere, but i don't have that link handy... :wink: )

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cluntz
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:57 pm Post

My vote: remove the highlight border, or make it optional. Given the extensive flexibility of Scrivener to modify the visual environment in nearly every context, forcing this on all users makes no sense.

There's a reason no other app I know of does this. The border, in a starkly intrusive grey, adds a distraction and busyness to the very place in a document and on the screen where one is working.

It's a nuanced eyesore, like a hair or dirt on the screen.

If nothing else, make the border the same colour as the line-highlight colour, but a bit darker. That grey is clunky-awful.

It's the only thing in Scrivener 3 that hit me as wrong. Everything else is so well done. I'm in love with version 3, except this. This looks like it was a leftover from testing on a Saturday night. I now turn it off but so wish I had it available.