Scrivener 1.0 RC b1 here at last...

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Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:02 am Post

When you export a draft, Scrivener ignores any of the "ruler" portions of the styles that you've created in the document.  Font formatting is respected; tabs and margins are not.  (Scrivener Gold worked properly here.)

I'm currently using Scrivener to edit 40 of my magazine columns from the past six years into a book manuscript.  I prefer working in full screen mode, but there are two things that would make it work better for editing.

1. Some way to highlight text (preferably through a hot key).  Currently, it appears that the only way to highlight text is to exit full screen, highlight it, and return to full screen.

2. Because I'm editing, I like having the ruler visible in full screen mode so that I can do some formatting as I edit.  Every time I mouse up to the ruler, however, I get bit by Fitt's law, because the menu bar appears immediately.  As far as I'm concerned, the menu bar does not need to appear at all, but if it's going to, I think it should appear after a slight delay--not long enough to annoy somene who's trying to trigger it, but long enough to be able to toss the mouse to the top of the screen and then move it down onto the ruler elements before the menu bar appears.

Overall, I remain very pleased with Scrivener.

Ma
Maria
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Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:28 am Post

del
Last edited by Maria on Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ex
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Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:04 am Post

If you move the cursor to the top of the screen, the menu bar appears and you can choose any menu command, like annotation, footnote, hightlight etc. 


Except that the Highlight command in the menu bar does not highlight a selection--all it does is pull up the submenu where you can change the highlight color.

Aha!  In checking to make sure I was stating that correctly, I tested everything in the submenu and discovered that "Toggle Highlight Color" does not, as the phrasing seemed to indicate (to me, at least) toggle the highlighter between different colors but, instead, applies the highlighter.  So there is a key command for highlighting.

I'd suggest changing "Toggle Highlight Color" to something more obvious, such as "Apply Highlighter" or simply "Highlight Selection."

(I think part of my confusion stemmed from the fact that, on my machine, at least, there's no check mark next to the current color in that submenu.  Assuming this isn't a problem with my setup, there should be a check mark.)

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AmberV
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Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:18 am Post

Perhaps "Toggle highlight?" Because if you just say "Highlight selection" the menu item ceases to make sense when attempting to remove a highlight. Oh, and I second Maria's request on toning down the brightness of those highlighters a bit. :)
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
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KB
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Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:04 am Post

When you export a draft, Scrivener ignores any of the "ruler" portions of the styles that you've created in the document. Font formatting is respected; tabs and margins are not. (Scrivener Gold worked properly here.)


Strange, becuase the code is the same in both. :) I can't recreate this - everything works as expected. Do you have "Use export text formatting" checked? If so, the ruler and font settings will be overridden by those defined in the Export Settings under View > Project Settings. The ability to have different export formatting was something often requested, and the checkbutton in the Export Draft sheet turns it on by default. If you uncheck that, Scrivener won't touch your formatting when you export.

1. Some way to highlight text (preferably through a hot key). Currently, it appears that the only way to highlight text is to exit full screen, highlight it, and return to full screen.


I've changed the title of the toolbar item to "Toggle Highlight" as per AmberV's suggestion. As she pointed out, it has to be "Toggle", because it can remove highlighting as well as add it.

And -- not so urgent: nicer highlighing colours, set up options according to one's own taste


Well, you won't be able to choose your own highlighting colours, that is going a little too far at the moment. Look at it like this: Scrivener comes with five highlighter pens. It used to come with none. :) However, maybe I will tone down the colours to something a little more subtle, perhaps by making the current colours semi-transparent.

2. Because I'm editing, I like having the ruler visible in full screen mode so that I can do some formatting as I edit. Every time I mouse up to the ruler, however, I get bit by Fitt's law, because the menu bar appears immediately. As far as I'm concerned, the menu bar does not need to appear at all, but if it's going to, I think it should appear after a slight delay--not long enough to annoy somene who's trying to trigger it, but long enough to be able to toss the mouse to the top of the screen and then move it down onto the ruler elements before the menu bar appears.


The menu provides extra options that many users may require. For instance, Go > Go To allows you to navigate between documents whilst in full screen. There are various text options available under the Text menu that do not have keyboard shortcuts. You can view your snapshots. The speech feature is available through the menu only... and so on. And unfortunately there is no way of adding a delay, as the popping down of the menu is done through a system command that has no options for this. That said, I don't find too much of a problem with this; all of the controls in the ruler are available, it just means getting used to avoiding the top of the screen with the mouse. I'm not saying it's ideal; just an unavoidable annoyance in the current set up.

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Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:17 pm Post

I've changed the title of the toolbar item to "Toggle Highlight" as per AmberV's suggestion. As she pointed out, it has to be "Toggle", because it can remove highlighting as well as add it.


I was thinking about this last night, and came to that same conclusion--until I remembered that, in fact, the title of menu items can change dynamically.  So you could have "Apply Highlight to Selection" when the selection is not highlighted and "Remove Highlight" when the selection is highlighted.  That would avoid any confusion.

As for the menu bar, I understand the dilemma.  There are other programs that apparently override the system behavior to provide a delay--I just wish I could think of some right now. 
:D

I know I've run into this situation before, however.  If I can find some examples, I'll let you know.

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Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:23 pm Post

Do you have "Use export text formatting" checked? If so, the ruler and font settings will be overridden by those defined in the Export Settings under View > Project Settings. The ability to have different export formatting was something often requested, and the checkbutton in the Export Draft sheet turns it on by default. If you uncheck that, Scrivener won't touch your formatting when you export. 


That does the trick.  Thanks!

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AmberV
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Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:03 am Post

Well, you won't be able to choose your own highlighting colours, that is going a little too far at the moment.


Agree on the choices themselves being fine. One nice thing about them is that they match the five standard highlighter pens that can be purchased at any office store. Chances are, many of us already have informal systems based on the colours of these pens in our hard-copy editing. That we can transfer that system over to Scrivener is nice.

And unfortunately there is no way of adding a delay, as the popping down of the menu is done through a system command that has no options for this.


And here I was, thinking the delay was too slow. ;) My question: When have we ever had the benefit of Fitt's law with the ruler anyway? I for one am used to having to aim at GUI elements in the ruler.
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AmberV
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Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:05 am Post

By the way, I love this thread. It has gone from praise to beer to highlighter pens.
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Ioa Petra'ka
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Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:20 am Post

Minor niggle - when choosing "use small size" as a toolbar option, the "add" button does not shrink.

Nice beta. Reading the tutorial is a must.

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:46 am Post

Great work! I used the scrivener gold for my nanowrimo project last year and I plan to use this for this year too!

I was looking forward to the tutorial but for some reason when I try to open it, it says that it needs to update the project (tutorial file) so it can run on the new Scrivener beta. The file right now has the symbol for the Scrivener Gold and the beta has expired. However, when I try to update the file, the Scrivener automatically quits and I can't open the tutorial. What's the problem? Please help. Thanks

Justin

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:58 pm Post

A bit slow to download the beta what with other stuff going on, but this is a glorious program.

Keith - you've done an excellent job of remixing the good bits of SG while keeping the look clean. I'm particularly impressed at the way you've combined the different views into one - that view switch was always a bit sticky, and I was used to the idea from the dev tools I use every day (the Eclipse IDE has perspectives which have a similar role).

Very very slick indeed. Well done.

Right, time to get hammering on it.
--
Dunx

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:49 pm Post

Dunx - glad to see you are still around and using Scrivener!

bluloo - yep, that is true. The "Add" and "Edit Scrivenings" buttons (which have menus attached" aren't proper toolbar items. They are really views placed inside the toolbar, like the search field, so they don't shrink. I'll see if I can do anything about it.

justinlau_15 - sounds like you haven't got rid of your old copies of Scrivener Gold. Delete all copies of Scrivener Gold from disk (you can reinstall it afterwards in another folder if you want to keep it around), delete the tutorial and start again. To be extra sure, you can also delete the preferences file (search for com.literatureandlatte.scrivener). Don't just dump it in the trash - make sure you empty the trash, too, so that SG is completely wiped. Now install Scrivener again - making sure it is to the Applications folder - and copy the tutorial from the DMG to another folder again. Then reboot, to force the new icons, services and Spotlight support to get registered. Everything should work fine, then. It sounds like the tutorial somehow got opened by SG and converted back to the old format. Hope that helps - let me know if not.

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Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:16 pm Post

KB wrote:Dunx - glad to see you are still around and using Scrivener!

Very much so - SG is my primary writing app for large creative projects. I wrote NaNo 2005 in it in the first place of course, and have imported NaNo 2004 in as well. I also write roleplaying scenarios in it.

Browsing through a few of the other threads here I am glad to see that you are implementing more keyboard shortcuts. I type a lot faster than I mouse, so always happy to see more options for not moving my hands over to tickle the rodent.
--

Dunx

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AmberV
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Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:50 pm Post

Dunx wrote:I type a lot faster than I mouse, so always happy to see more options for not moving my hands over to tickle the rodent.


Finally, an ally!
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles