Scrivener 1.0 RC b1 here at last...

Ja
Jan
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Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:35 pm Post

KB wrote:Earlier in my life? I am actually a primary school teacher by day!

Aha! Reading the tutorial gave me the idea that you have professional experience with teaching/explaining stuff. I'm bad at explaining stuff myself, but I'm good at making guesses, it seems ;)

br
brett
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:47 am Post

AmberV wrote:But damn good beers compared to the domestic yellow water we get served, here. :)


You live here in Beervana and you're complaining?! Try the new Bridgeport Surpris, or Mirror Pond, or Widmer or --

oh, wait, this is for discussing the new Scrivener. I'll download the beta ... as soon as I drain this mug.

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AmberV
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:40 am Post

You caught me! Of course, one does get spoiled on fantastic local beers when living in this city. But, I haven't always lived here, so my overall opinion is a little jaded. You'll have to pardon my prejudices. ;) I'll still take a Samuel Smith oatmeal stout over anything local.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

Ga
Gaijin de Moscu
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:04 pm Post

Why are there so many Portlanders? Should I move to Portland? We have terrible beer here in Geneva, but lotsa good cheap French wine.

Keith, I've been using the beta for a day now - the experience is excellent. I don't want to admit it, but I think it stimulates my creativity :)

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alexwein
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:15 pm Post

Never lived in Geneva and don't drink beer (never could get to liking the taste), but Portland is an excellent place to live for many reasons, up to and including the fact that there is a very strong writing community here and in the surrounding areas. I wonder how AmberV fares as an artist, however. My sister has found it more difficult, with less resources, for the visual arts.

But of course I get off topic. Scr. is amazing. But I already said that so off to use it and get some work done!

Alexandria

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AmberV
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:00 pm Post

Well, it helps if you prostitute your art in the name of graphic design. ;) The natural media scene here is nearly saturated and it is very difficult to make a break in this city. As for why there are so many of us here on this board, I think somebody else said it accurately: Portland has a massive NanoWriMo community, given the size of the city. We amassed enough words to get into the top 10, sometimes even the top 5, against cities many times our size. Since Scrivener was originally publicised as a Nano tool, it took off here. There also seems to be a lot of Macs in this city, too.
.:.
Ioa Petra'ka
“Whole sight, or all the rest is desolation.” —John Fowles

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alexwein
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Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:07 pm Post

AmberV wrote:Well, it helps if you prostitute your art in the name of graphic design. ;) The natural media scene here is nearly saturated and it is very difficult to make a break in this city. As for why there are so many of us here on this board, I think somebody else said it accurately: Portland has a massive NanoWriMo community, given the size of the city. We amassed enough words to get into the top 10, sometimes even the top 5, against cities many times our size. Since Scrivener was originally publicised as a Nano tool, it took off here. There also seems to be a lot of Macs in this city, too.


Ah, thanks for explaining. Sounds logical! Lots of writers, the NanoWriMo connection, and many Macs. Three more reasons to love Portland!

My sister didn't go the graphic design route. To make a living, she teaches art and math to kids, freelance, and does quite well with it. She's also writing a book on the art/math connection. She too found it very difficult to break into the art scene here. I have two other artist friends, one of whom has done fairly well, but she's been here forever and has made inroads.

Ex
ExecutiveEditor
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:42 pm Post

I'm very pleased with the new beta.  I thought that Scrivener Gold was close to perfect, but you've surpassed that standard.

There's one small difference between the old Draft mode and Edit Scrivenings in which I think Scrivener Gold had the upper hand, and that was showing the titles of the documents inline with the text in Draft mode.  I found that very useful when writing a speech or an article with subsections, and I'm missing it greatly.

Is there any possibility that you could bring it back as a preference?

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KB
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:17 pm Post

Sadly not - or at least, not without rewriting huge amounts of code. It was something I considered carefully, and it was a bit of a trade off. The way it works now allows things to be much more flexible. By working with text only, it can do much more (such as display non-contiguous chunks of text quickly). I also figured that most users will still be placing chapter titles inside certain documents, which will then obviously still appear. The way it works now means you can just compile whole chunks of text to see how they work when run together. The old draft view didn't really allow that. The old version was actually much more buggy as well - the whole thing had to keep track of where different titles of different lengths were.

One solution is to place titles in the text of group documents. For instance, say you have a number of text documents that comprise Chapter 1 contained within a folder entitled "Chapter 1". Now that folders can hold text too, you could just have the text of the Chapter 1 folder as "Chapter 1" in a large, bold font. Then you select the folder, hit edit scrivenings, and you have your title at the top. This is just one way of using folders. Or you can use a separate text document for it, of course, though this would hardly be optimal.

Ex
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:22 pm Post

Well, it's not an insurmountable obstacle--as you say, I can place titles in the docs.  Going forward, that's not a problem.  It will require reworking some rather large projects I started under Scrivener Gold, though.

If it has made the code cleaner and less buggy, however, then it's worth the inconvenience.

Thanks again for a great product!

Ga
Gaijin de Moscu
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:31 pm Post

KB wrote:Sadly not - or at least, not without rewriting huge amounts of code. It was something I considered carefully, and it was a bit of a trade off. The way it works now allows things to be much more flexible. By working with text only, it can do much more (such as display non-contiguous chunks of text quickly). I also figured that most users will still be placing chapter titles inside certain documents, which will then obviously still appear. The way it works now means you can just compile whole chunks of text to see how they work when run together. The old draft view didn't really allow that. The old version was actually much more buggy as well - the whole thing had to keep track of where different titles of different lengths were.


I actually like it better this way. Works more flawlessly for me as a continuous text, — I normally want my titles off the page, as I write short stories (and that Great novel of course).

For that reason, I never used the old Draft but keep using the new incarnation of it.

bl
bluloo
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:00 pm Post

Wow, how did I miss this?

Just downloaded the .dmg. Can't wait to try it!

:)

mu
musti
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:32 pm Post

Fantastic, Keith. Thank you for your hard work. This is one of the most visually pleasing applications on the Mac ever.

A question: Will you be offering the Corkboard and the full screen writing as separate modules? Like, two separate applications...one for visually outlining ideas or to put our real index cards into digital medium (with possibility of scanning them even, though not that necessary), the other a much better replacement for BlockWriter?

Now to the tutorial...(rubs hands).

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KB
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Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:54 pm Post

Thanks for your kind words, Musti.

A question: Will you be offering the Corkboard and the full screen writing as separate modules? Like, two separate applications...one for visually outlining ideas or to put our real index cards into digital medium (with possibility of scanning them even, though not that necessary), the other a much better replacement for BlockWriter?


Not for the foreseeable future, purely because of the amount of work I have to do on Scrivener. One day, when things have calmed down, I would quite like to release a freeware Corkboard-only app. But because Scrivener is my primary writing app, that is always going to take precedence.

All the best,
Keith

mu
musti
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Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:43 pm Post

I am pretty sure there will be good demand for both the Corkboard application and the full-screen writing module of Scrivener, as a separate program.