Scrivener Beta 3 now public

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Eiron
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:42 pm Post

awpstrike wrote:While the format is OK, the names of characters should all be underlined, and stage direction is meant to be italicized. There are a few other things you could do to improve this in terms of how you switch between sections/character


I beg to differ awpstrike. Underlined chracter names are definitely not the norm, nor is italicized stage direction. You might want to point your teacher to http://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scriptsmart/formats.shtml which links to some good stage examples. In any case you'll find that Theatres are not nearly as anal about format as Hollywood - pick a style that works for you and keep things consistent and neat, that's all. Also, the beauty of Scrivener is that the focus is on process and content rather than output format.

Cheers,

Eiron
Last edited by Eiron on Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Du
Dunx
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:43 pm Post

In good time for NaNoWriMo, too.

Looking forward to writing this year's rushed manuscript on the new beta. Thank you, Keith.
--
Dunx

aw
awpstrike
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:16 pm Post

edit: -double post-

ka
katzenjammer
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:24 pm Post

Eiron wrote:I beg to differ awpstrike. Underlined chracter names are definitely not the norm, nor is italicized stage direction.

I completely agree with Eiron.

Perhaps awpstrike meant the underlining in the dramatis personae page, which is fairly traditional, at least in the US?? Along the same lines, sometimes the act/scene elements are underlined rather than caps.

In any case, it's imperative that we make it clear that the screenplay mode is only a drafting mode and nothing more. This will no doubt come in handy when the billions of writers out there come to download 1.0.... :D

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Eiron
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:41 pm Post

katzenjammer wrote:it's imperative that we make it clear that the screenplay mode is only a drafting mode and nothing more.
Hear Hear.

As you've already noticed, Katzenjammer, I'm fairly opiniated and idiosyncratic about the whole draft and form issue. For me, the draft is a sacred thing, brimful of possibilities and ideas, with nothing set in stone: in the early stages it's purposefully messy with notes and links and scribbles. Trying to squish it too early into some pre-ordained format designed for typewriters strikes me as delusional - it serves only to fool one into thinking that you're outputting something final, professional and publishable. Fuck that. As often as not my dialogue is meant to be contradicted by the delivery or the action anyways- it can only come to life in rehearsal. It's a play, it's theatre dammit and it won't be finished until the last audience goes home.
I'm lucky enough to work in collaborative environment that's very supportive of writers - and since I direct or co-direct as well, my scripts are unusually full of notes for designers, directors, actors etc.

All this to say that I love Scrivener's content oriented approach. To be frank, I probably won't even use its built in Stageplay features (though I'm very glad they're there, Keith!) I'm too used to my own key-shortcutted styles to bother.

That said, if I can figure out this whole Latex/Multimarkdown thing (a HUGE if) I may toy with the idea of marking my texts for different purposes. It would be great to be able to spit out different draft formats and versions for actors, designers, directors etc while in production, not to mention marking up changes in a useful way.

And next time I send someone a draft on spec (hopefully never again!) I'll just spend a morning cleaning things up into nice neat boring skeuomorphic* UK or US stage stage format.

Cheers,

Eiron
*That's twice this week I've used that in a sentence! :o Just trying to spread the meme.

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katzenjammer
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:04 pm Post

Hey Eiron,

I'm in complete agreement with what you say. :wink:

On barely-related note: do you ever wonder if, perhaps, we're all a little insane on this forum? Dost thou thinkest that, say, a Shakespeare or a Dostoevsky worried or cared about the sorts of niggling issues we seem to care about so much here in this forum?

I mean really. And I'm the worst offender. Today, I posted a question about document titles and why they're underlined in the editor. And then I had to laugh at myself, thinking: "my problem isn't that the title is underlined (good god, the horror, the horror!), it's that I've got a goddamn 5,000 word article to write and I'm swimming in 20,000 words and I can't seem to focus them." :?

aw
awpstrike
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:01 am Post

Thanks for the info guys. I like that mode a lot and it will come in handy. I guess I differ a bit from almost everyone else here (including Keith) but I feel like if an app is going 99% of the way it might as well go that last 1% and let me finish the formatting in there instead of having to export.

I do have Final Draft, but I much prefer writing in Scrivener. However, if I'm going to essentially have to retype my entire play/screenplay into FD to get it in format after I'm done with it... well, maybe I'll forgo the entire Scrivener experience and just stick with FD? I guess that's my only concern with not making this app able to export polished final drafts (even if it doesn't do so by default and takes a bit more work at the end or along the way on the part of the user).

Overall, it's really coming along nicely though.

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katzenjammer
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:13 am Post

awpstrike wrote:I do have Final Draft, but I much prefer writing in Scrivener. However, if I'm going to essentially have to retype my entire play/screenplay into FD to get it in format after I'm done with it... well, maybe I'll forgo the entire Scrivener experience and just stick with FD?

I've done some experimenting with this, and found that if I simply export into plain text and then import into a FD stageplay template, it actually works quite well. Not that you won't have corrections to make, but this beats typing it all out again :wink:
awpstrike wrote:I guess that's my only concern with not making this app able to export polished final drafts (even if it doesn't do so by default and takes a bit more work at the end or along the way on the part of the user).

The complexities of doing this are quite enormous. Take a look at Montage - this is all they focus on and they still have a long, long way to go (but I do think that it will eventually be a much better program than FD.) And even FD, which has been around for years, still has its problems, bugs, etc.
Hope this helps! :)

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rochefore
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:43 am Post

Thanks Keith. Working beautifully.

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Typo
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:05 am Post

katzenjammer wrote:On barely-related note: do you ever wonder if, perhaps, we're all a little insane on this forum? Dost thou thinkest that, say, a Shakespeare or a Dostoevsky worried or cared about the sorts of niggling issues we seem to care about so much here in this forum?


I've been thinking about this, too, but then I remembered that Douglas Adams was famous for spending hours testing different word processors on his Mac - instead of writing. I think he would have liked this place. :D

On topic - I've been spending only 1 or 2 hours with Beta 3 yet, but I've not encountered any problems so far - only improvements. Great work!

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Maria
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:52 am Post

del
Last edited by Maria on Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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katzenjammer
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:33 am Post

Typo & Maria, thanks! Now I feel a little less insane. :)

Back on topic: Keith, B3 is working beautifully. A joy to work in, I say! :D

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KB
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:23 pm Post

awpstrike wrote:Also, the Stageplay modes are not technically correct (I'm currently in a playwriting course). While the format is OK, the names of characters should all be underlined, and stage direction is meant to be italicized. There are a few other things you could do to improve this in terms of how you switch between sections/character (I know it's similar to FD but even that program has weaknesses).


I've already stated that I'm not really interested in improving this mode any more - it is meant to be basic, as Scrivener is not a dedicated script writing program. As for the format, you can use Cmd-U or Cmd-I to underline or add italics as you want, so what is the problem? And in actual fact, you are not entirely right anyway. It depends on the type of stageplay you are writing. The UK formatting is based on the BBC standard and the US is based on Samuel & French. There are variations, but Scrivener uses the basic one so that you can hit cmd-U or cmd-I if you need to.

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KB
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:57 pm Post

When I toggle between text documents that are in different modes, it doesn't toggle back to the appropriate mode.


I think you misunderstand how this works. There is no such thing as having "documents... in different modes". The mode affects the editor, not the document.

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katzenjammer
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:21 pm Post

KB wrote:Scrivener is not a dedicated script writing program.

Hey Keith, perhaps the first time a user enters screenmode, a little pop-up tells them this...? Clearly this is going to be an issue. I can see Ulysses-like posts on this issue unless its made crystal clear upfront. Just a thought. :wink:

Hope all is well with thou. Beta 3 is awesome. I'm using it 8 hours/day now. cheers! :D