Scrivener 1.1/1.04 public beta (OLD)

je
jean-louis
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Sun May 13, 2007 10:22 pm Post

All my texts are now justified systematically at value 174 on the right of the ruler (little triangle pointing downward). No problem when printing. But for reading, I'm obliged to paste a new ruler state everywhere...
Am I alone?

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KB
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Sun May 13, 2007 10:48 pm Post

All my texts are now justified systematically at value 174 on the right of the ruler (little triangle pointing downward). No problem when printing. But for reading, I'm obliged to paste a new ruler state everywhere...
Am I alone?


?

The Scrivener default format hasn't changed. Are you sure this isn't just the result of Scrivener using a "Fixed Width" editor by default now? Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you mean.

All the best,
Keith

RT
RTJK
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Mon May 14, 2007 10:04 pm Post

Hi

Message board newbie I'm afraid, so forgive if I balls it up. Let's start with congrats and thank you for another great update Keith. Scrivener has improved almost everything about how I, and lots of people, work and you should be thoroughly pleased with yourself. It is now your software I stare at for eight or more hours of each day.

Ok - to the business of this thread. I downloaded 1.041b and I'm having trouble trying to get the all elements recognised while importing a screenplay from Final Draft. I'm keen to cement in place a solid workflow for collaborating with other screenwriters and producers, some of whom use PCs. (clears throat). I've been all through the forums, and I think all the relevant help from .03 and I've got Action, Character, Dialogue and Transition recognised so far. Not bad. But manually editing Scene Headers (for example) one by one will, I imagine, become onerous on the third time around.

I've been exporting a .rtf from Final Draft. The template in FD was their standard "Screenplay.fdt" one and I've cross-referenced all their indents with the ones in Scrivener's Script Settings and created a new .xml and put it in the proper Scripts folder as advised. (I wanted to create a new Scrivener Script Setting because the standard one didn't match any of the templates included with Final Draft.)

So it's going pretty well - and it's certainly useable - but I wonder if anyone can't help me get the whole way. I can make my .xml template available if anyone who might be interested.

On a similar note - it's useful to be able to export a .rtf draft from Scrivener and reimport it with all the elements in tact. This I have been able to do with perfect success, but it was after a fair bit of fiddling with export settings and indents etc. Is it possible a preset button or something could be built into the export dialogue? I think the export settings are a bit scary I'm afraid.

Anyway - forget I spoke. I recommend Scrivener at least a couple of times a week. These boring quibbles are tiny compared to how great everything else about Scrivener is. I've been reading the forum for months and all the praise directed your way is entirely deserved.

That was my first post. May I stay?
Re-examine all that you have been told...
dismiss that which insults your soul.
- Walt Whitman

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KB
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Mon May 14, 2007 10:43 pm Post

've been exporting a .rtf from Final Draft. The template in FD was their standard "Screenplay.fdt" one and I've cross-referenced all their indents with the ones in Scrivener's Script Settings and created a new .xml and put it in the proper Scripts folder as advised. (I wanted to create a new Scrivener Script Setting because the standard one didn't match any of the templates included with Final Draft.)


Have you tried using the "Screenplay (Final Draft)" template that came with the current beta? I already went through and matched everything up, and using that I can export a file as RTF from FD, import it into Scrivener and have every element recognised (well, except for Shot, which gets read as Scene Heading because the format is nearly identical).

For the record, rather than matching up all the settings to what is set in the script settings in FD, it is better to import a test file into Scrivener and examine each element for the format using the ruler. That is what I did for my FD template.

Note that upon importing a file from Final Draft, the elements won't be capitalised, so you need to go to Text > Convert > Re-capitalize Script.

I have just done another quick test using the Final Draft screenplay format provided with the recent beta, and I imported a screenplay from FD (using Screenplay.fdt) into Scrivener flawlessly, with all elements recognised.

On a similar note - it's useful to be able to export a .rtf draft from Scrivener and reimport it with all the elements in tact. This I have been able to do with perfect success, but it was after a fair bit of fiddling with export settings and indents etc. Is it possible a preset button or something could be built into the export dialogue? I think the export settings are a bit scary I'm afraid.


In Export Draft, Formatting, choose not to override the text formatting.

Hope that helps!
Keith

RT
RTJK
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Mon May 14, 2007 11:21 pm Post

Ok, yeah it was me. Or more specifically it was Final Draft, which was messing me about. Your .xml works perfectly - it just wasn't working for my particular script as, despite what was written in the Element indent fields in Final Draft, they weren't where they claimed they were. So round and round in circles I went...

The following info might be useful for your documentation: I suspected my script's formatting was gooey, but pasting my script into a new blank Final Draft screenplay.fdt document didn't work (which led to my lengthy confusion) instead I needed to type some (all? I dunno) elements into a new blank document and then paste over them with my wrong-formatted screenplay. I guess somehow this preserved the correct formatting after pasting into the new file. Whatever.

Thanks Keith. Final Draft sucks. Scrivener rules. We knew this.

Robin
Re-examine all that you have been told...

dismiss that which insults your soul.

- Walt Whitman

je
jean-louis
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Tue May 15, 2007 9:01 am Post

KB wrote:
All my texts are now justified systematically at value 174 on the right of the ruler...
Are you sure this isn't just the result of Scrivener using a "Fixed Width" editor by default now?


You're right, I used "Fixed Width" by mistake after entering a big value to obtain the largest possible window. May be it would be better to put the check box below as it is ambiguous, but (as always) I eat boiled crow... Next time fried. :shock:

BH
BHD
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Tue May 15, 2007 9:07 pm Post

Not sure if this has been discussed in any depth, but re:

- Added Bibliography/Citations… command to Text menu (shift-cmd-Y). If you set a Bibliography Manager via Typography Preferences, this command will just launch or bring to front the set manager (e.g. Bookends, EndNote or Sente). In the case of Bookends, this means that you can now just hit shift-cmd-Y whilst in Scrivener to bring Bookends to the front, then select a citation and hit cmd-Y to return to Scrivener with the citation pasted in. With EndNote or Sente, which cannot paste directly into Scrivener, you can hit shift-cmd-Y whilst in Scrivener to bring them to the front, then select a citation, hit cmd-C to copy it, then switch back to Scrivener and hit cmd-V to past the citation into Scrivener yourself. Hopefully this should just speed up the academic workflow a little.


I'm a little disappointed in this tendency I see with Mac productivity developers to be only doing real integration with Bookends. Indeed, Redlers has an exclusive deal with its developer for a year. I hope the same is not the case here.

In short, I'd like to see an open API for this. Zotero is a really excellent free, multi-platform (Mac, Windows, Linux, etc.) alternative to Endnote and Bookends, and it would nice to support for it. Is that possible now?

Of course, I really think citations should be a system-level service.

Finally, it's really strange to be including he config option here in the typography panel.

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KB
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Tue May 15, 2007 9:18 pm Post

Two very negative posts, BHD. :(

I don't see that there is anything exclusive to Bookends in Scrivener's implementation. You can choose whatever citation manager you want and open it using the Bibliography/Citation Text menu item. Any you want. The only difference is that it is easier to use Bookends to paste directly into Scrivener. Is that Scrivener's fault? No it isn't. It is because the developer of Bookends is very responsive and helpful, and he got in touch with me. Sente and Bookends only support certain word processors, whereas Bookends can be associated with any.

Finally, whilst I agree that Typography was a strange place to put this, all of the other preferences panes are already choc-a-bloc - mainly because Scrivener allows a lot of customisation. So shoot me. :)

Keith

mi
michaelbywater
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Wed May 16, 2007 1:07 am Post

KB wrote: So shoot me.


'kay.

<KABLAM>

Ha! That's US screwed! Did I do good, Mummy? Did I?

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Siren
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Wed May 16, 2007 9:14 am Post

When the cursor is in a footnote text entry, the entire footnote flashes in time with the blinking of the cursor -- this doesn't happen in annotation text, and it doesn't happen while I am actually typing (there is a split-second pause before the flashing kicks in). I have a block cursor set to 2 pixels, and am using ghost fading. Disabling insertion point blinking stops the flashing. EDIT (1): But even with the blinking disabled, the colour of the background text darkens slightly, soon after I stop typing.

EDIT (2): If the cursor is in footnote text, and insertion point blinking is disabled, then moving the vertical scroll bar (while keeping the footnote text on screen) causes the footnote background to get progressively darker until it appears totally black with the text obscured. This only happens with a block cursor (even if the cursor is set to a width of just 1 pixel).

BH
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Wed May 16, 2007 4:52 pm Post

KB wrote:Two very negative posts, BHD. :(


I certainly didn't intend them to be "very negative." And I don't think they were actually.

I see a lot of promise in the app, and this thread I presume is soliciting feedback on beta software; e.g. productive changes you could make before final release.

I don't see that there is anything exclusive to Bookends in Scrivener's implementation. You can choose whatever citation manager you want and open it using the Bibliography/Citation Text menu item. Any you want. The only difference is that it is easier to use Bookends to paste directly into Scrivener. Is that Scrivener's fault? No it isn't. It is because the developer of Bookends is very responsive and helpful, and he got in touch with me. Sente and Bookends only support certain word processors, whereas Bookends can be associated with any.


I guess it might help to document how that interaction works when you get a chance? If a Bookend user pastes a citation into the document, is it essentially a live citation field/object (an important requirement to have good citation support)? Can other developers achieve the same kind of interaction? If yes, how?

Finally, whilst I agree that Typography was a strange place to put this, all of the other preferences panes are already choc-a-bloc - mainly because Scrivener allows a lot of customisation. So shoot me. :)


I suppose you could rename "typography" to something a little more general but which might still encompass citations (if that's possible)?

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KB
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Wed May 16, 2007 6:27 pm Post

Siren wrote:When the cursor is in a footnote text entry, the entire footnote flashes in time with the blinking of the cursor -- this doesn't happen in annotation text, and it doesn't happen while I am actually typing (there is a split-second pause before the flashing kicks in). I have a block cursor set to 2 pixels, and am using ghost fading. Disabling insertion point blinking stops the flashing...


Hopefully this behaviour is fixed for the next update/release version. There was a general drawing bug with the block cursor that caused strange behaviour in Edit Scrivenings, too (see Amber's earlier post), which was related.

BHD wrote:I see a lot of promise in the app...


From the Readme file:

My main priority won't be adding new whizz-bang features but using it myself. So - please judge it as it is right now rather than for what you think it could become.


Scrivener most certainly is not a promise. :) It is what it is, and is provided as-is. Please don't judge it on what you think it could be, as things are unlikely to change much after this beta (as you will understand from the rest of the readme - I've already tweaked a lot more than I meant to!)

BHD wrote:...and this thread I presume is soliciting feedback on beta software; e.g. productive changes you could make before final release.


Hmm, not exactly. :) Rather, this beta release is just for hunting down bugs whilst I update the documentation. (Please see the original post in this thread which elucidates this.) There was a massive one-year public beta test before 1.0 during which most major changes were made. There will be no major changes to this version before it is released, just bug fixes. I wanted to make sure it was a bug-free as possible before the official release, given some of the large changes.

BHD wrote:I guess it might help to document how that interaction works when you get a chance? If a Bookend user pastes a citation into the document, is it essentially a live citation field/object (an important requirement to have good citation support)? Can other developers achieve the same kind of interaction? If yes, how?


I'm not sure what you mean by "document how that interaction works". If you mean in Scrivener, well, yes, that is why this is a beta version, because the Help file hasn't been updated yet with all of this info. (Again, clarified in the first post in this thread - please do take the time to read it.) But the citations inserted work exactly the same as citations that you paste into Word using Endnote, Bookends or Sente. I don't use these programs myself, so you are better off talking to a user of one of those programs for more info, or reading their Help files.

BHD wrote:I suppose you could rename "typography" to something a little more general but which might still encompass citations (if that's possible)?


Well, I am open to suggestions for a more fitting title to that pane. But the person who makes the suggestion best be prepared to design me a new icon. It is well-publicised that I hate making icons or graphics. As many users know, the main reason that Scrivener is a bargain $34.95 is because I made the icon long ago and lost the original PSD file, and I couldn't be bothered to make another one with a more expensive price tag on it. :)

All the best,
Keith

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bobembry
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Wed May 16, 2007 9:02 pm Post

Keith

Selecting some text and clicking the Copy Style icon on the toolbar and then selecting some other text with a different style and clicking Paste Style icon does nothing.

I think its the Paste Style icon that's not working right because using the keyboard shortcut for Paste Style changes the text.

Thanks

Bob

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Wed May 16, 2007 9:05 pm Post

I was just trying to figure out how to automate inserting citations and, lo and behold! (thunder please), here's your nifty new beta. I shall now invest all that saved time into focused and brilliant dissertation writing. Ha! :lol:

I *love* the ghost notes. 8)

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KB
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Wed May 16, 2007 10:39 pm Post

Selecting some text and clicking the Copy Style icon on the toolbar and then selecting some other text with a different style and clicking Paste Style icon does nothing.

I think its the Paste Style icon that's not working right because using the keyboard shortcut for Paste Style changes the text.


Hi Bob,

Actually, "Copy Style" and "Paste Style" is a weird one. What it actually does is paste the ruler style (Text > Ruler > Copy Ruler & Paste Ruler), not the text attributes (font etc). This is based on the way this works in Pages, if I recall correctly, and other such apps. Not to be confused with "Paste and Match Style".

Best,
Keith