Another app (Ulysses) moves to a subscription based model

Jo
JoergW
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:55 pm
Platform: Mac

Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:29 am Post

I used (and loved) Ulysses for certain kinds of text, just as I love and use Scrivener for other kinds.

However, this subscription model puts me off. The moment the permanent version (that I still have installed on my Macs) fails due to incompatibilities with future versions of macOS, I'm off.

No subscriptions for me.

The whole idea of subscriptions simply does not fit to my personal style of software acquisition. I don't mind paying for software. Heck, I hope I notice in time that Scrivener 3 is out (there will be no update in the AppStore app, right?) that I can purchase it as early as possible. I also buy software from time to time that I like and want to support even though I will not use it heavily straight away. The latest example being Aeon Timeline, by the way. However, I do this from a kind of "virtual software budget", and if I buy something like Timeline one month, the next month the budget gets "restored".

With subscriptions, the more I had the bigger the preallocated part of my budget that I can no longer spend freely.

And what happens if the vendor goes out of business? Kind vendors would release a final "free forever for customers" release, but can we count on it?

What is worse in my view (but slightly off-topic) is the fact that some vendors now combine subscriptions with enforced cloud storage on their servers. Infamous examples being 1Password (I still have the non-subscription version and will continue to use it as long as possible, and then switch to EnPass) and Day One, which I looked into to replace the ageing MacJournal, but I will stay with MacJournal for precisely these reasons.

As someone mentioned earlier, those subscriptions add up, and one loses the overview if they are not managed carefully.

Maybe I'm just too old to get this new trend. Although I don't think so; my employer is currently switching his offerings to subscriptions, because in our market this is desired by the customers. In the market for private customers, however, I doubt it.

Online
User avatar
kewms
Posts: 3748
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:22 pm
Platform: Mac

Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:52 pm Post

JoergW wrote:Heck, I hope I notice in time that Scrivener 3 is out (there will be no update in the AppStore app, right?) that I can purchase it as early as possible.


Small clarification. Scrivener 3 *will* be released via the App Store. However, it is unfortunately not possible to offer an upgrade discount to App Store users.

Katherine
Scrivener Support Team

Ch
ChrisRosser
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:11 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, AU
Contact:

Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:55 pm Post

Cinder6 wrote:since they seem unwilling to add CriticMarkup


I use MultiMarkdown Composer for this reason. It's a really underrated app, its reputation perhaps a little tarnished because of its long development cycle. Also, I should note that Editorial on iOS also supports it.

I'm reviewing Ulysses and while I like the spit and polish (a lot), the practical side of my brain is struggling to get over their premium pricing when there are better Markdown and text editors on the market. I accept that Ulysses is nicer to compose and organise text - but then again, Scrivener has it licked there too (especially organisationally)

For a macOS/iOS hybrid workflow you can buy both MMC and Editorial outright for less than $16USD and use Dropbox to keep them in sync. If for whatever reason I had to abandon Scrivener, this would be my fall back. Writing pure (multi-) markdown in appropriate text editors and using an old-fashioned file system for organisation.

Ulysses' biggest trump cards is iCloud syncing (for those who hate Dropbox) and its (almost) feature parity on iOS (for those who've gone iOS-only).
Mild-mannered Technical Writer by day, closet fantasist by night
I run Scrivener on macOS and iOS :mrgreen:
NanoWriMo| Twitter | Website | Facebook

Ci
Cinder6
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:29 am Post

ChrisRosser wrote:
Cinder6 wrote:since they seem unwilling to add CriticMarkup


I'm reviewing Ulysses and while I like the spit and polish (a lot), the practical side of my brain is struggling to get over their premium pricing when there are better Markdown and text editors on the market. I accept that Ulysses is nicer to compose and organise text - but then again, Scrivener has it licked there too (especially organisationally)

For me, Ulysses excels in how it handles exporting. Once you have it set up the way you like it, I haven't found anything faster. It also handles sync really well without requiring Dropbox, which is a pretty big deal for me.

Those two things aren't worth $5/month. Scrivener's export is easier to set up and make changes on the fly, and Dropbox sync does work, if not as nicely as native iCloud sync would/could.

(That said, I'd be a happy, happy man if Scrivener got some of Ulysses' editor's features, such as syntax highlighting on MMD elements.)

Jo
JoergW
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:55 pm
Platform: Mac

Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:47 am Post

kewms wrote:
JoergW wrote:Heck, I hope I notice in time that Scrivener 3 is out (there will be no update in the AppStore app, right?) that I can purchase it as early as possible.


Small clarification. Scrivener 3 *will* be released via the App Store. However, it is unfortunately not possible to offer an upgrade discount to App Store users.

Katherine


Hi Katherine,

that was a misunderstanding. I know that it will be shipped via the App Store. What I meant was that it would be cool to see it in the "Updates" part of the App Store app as soon as it is released. I visit this part about once a day to keep everything up-to-date and save. It would be really cool to see Scrivener 3 if you are a Scrivener 2 customer who bought this in the App Store.

I know, of course, that this will not happen, as Scrivener 3 is a paid upgrade. I am optimistic, however, that it will feature on the "Highlights" part of the App Store app quickly ;) .

Just tried to point out how much I'm looking forward to it.

(Note to self: put "Apple prepaid card" onto the shopping list for today...)

Kind regards,
Joerg

Ci
Cinder6
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:34 pm Post

If you can, I'd recommend buying through the L&L store. Not only will L&L get more of the money, but when Scrivener 4 rolls around, you'll be able to take advantage of upgrade pricing.

Ch
ChrisRosser
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:11 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, AU
Contact:

Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:50 pm Post

Cinder6 wrote:For me, Ulysses excels in how it handles exporting. Once you have it set up the way you like it, I haven't found anything faster. It also handles sync really well without requiring Dropbox, which is a pretty big deal for me.

Those two things aren't worth $5/month. Scrivener's export is easier to set up and make changes on the fly, and Dropbox sync does work, if not as nicely as native iCloud sync would/could.

(That said, I'd be a happy, happy man if Scrivener got some of Ulysses' editor's features, such as syntax highlighting on MMD elements.)


I'm only just getting to the export feature and I agree they are nice and seem quite fast, even on iOS. I noted the sync too in my post. I don't like Dropbox but generally speaking I like Scrivener much more than I hate Dropbox.

I will respectfully disagree with you on Scrivener's editor. I use Scrivener because I want to use rich text. If I wanted to use a mardown editor, then I'd a markdown aware text editor. I wouldn't like to see the waters muddied unless they were two completely separate modes of entry.

As for the pricing (it's $7 in my country) I'm still undecided. If used every day of the year, then hands down it would be worth it; i'd get the annual subscription and write it off as an operational cost of business. However, I can't see myself wanting to use it for anything longer than a blog post or short story.
Mild-mannered Technical Writer by day, closet fantasist by night
I run Scrivener on macOS and iOS :mrgreen:
NanoWriMo| Twitter | Website | Facebook

Ci
Cinder6
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:37 am Post

I tend to trust Markdown more than I trust rich text, especially when it comes to converting to and from various formats. That's why I like it, but Scrivener's support for MMD is a bit too basic for my liking, so I stick to rich text. (I also have it on some authority—Max Seeleman, coincidentally—that RTF is a pretty poorly designed spec.)

Ch
ChrisRosser
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:11 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, AU
Contact:

Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:47 am Post

Cinder6 wrote:I tend to trust Markdown more than I trust rich text, especially when it comes to converting to and from various formats. That's why I like it, but Scrivener's support for MMD is a bit too basic for my liking, so I stick to rich text. (I also have it on some authority—Max Seeleman, coincidentally—that RTF is a pretty poorly designed spec.)


Oh, I agree. I'm a big markdown (and other text-based formats) user in my personal and professional life. Nothing beats plain for reliability, longevity, cross-platform support and network interchange.

However my current project is a complex 200,000 word, 15-year endeavour that's basically a massive kludge. I ain't converting that to markdown -- and kudos to Scrivener for handling that volume of work.

Beside which, I kind of like writing fiction at least in rich text. Feels closer to the end product. That said, I have got several newer projects currently on hold while I finish the fantasy epic, and most of those were drafted in markdown.
Mild-mannered Technical Writer by day, closet fantasist by night
I run Scrivener on macOS and iOS :mrgreen:
NanoWriMo| Twitter | Website | Facebook

sc
scshrugged
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:55 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS

Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:20 pm Post

17 Aug. blog post from iA Writer regarding subscriptions: https://ia.net/writer/blog/ia-writer-5- ... -to-sushi/
Scrivener user not affiliated with L&L.

Ch
ChrisRosser
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:11 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, AU
Contact:

Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:41 pm Post

scshrugged wrote:17 Aug. blog post from iA Writer regarding subscriptions: https://ia.net/writer/blog/ia-writer-5- ... -to-sushi/


Thanks schrugged. I enjoyed this article. What really resonated with me though was the linking article on plain text: https://ia.net/topics/multichannel-text-processing/

It made me realise that even Ulysses plays the smoke an mirrors game (or perhaps its iCloud's fault) with your files.
Mild-mannered Technical Writer by day, closet fantasist by night
I run Scrivener on macOS and iOS :mrgreen:
NanoWriMo| Twitter | Website | Facebook

User avatar
devinganger
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:55 pm
Platform: Mac, Win + iOS
Location: Monroe, WA 98272 (CN97au)
Contact:

Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:01 am Post

Wow. These links from iA Writer really help me realize their product is not my cup of tea. I lived through too many IT religious wars, I have no desire to ally myself with (or financially support) zealots ever again. I really appreciate L&L's pragmatic approach to software design.
--
Devin L. Ganger, WA7DLG
Not a L&L employee; opinions are those of my cat
Winner "Best in Class", 2018 My First Supervillain Photo Shoot

Ci
Cinder6
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:06 am Post

ChrisRosser wrote:It made me realise that even Ulysses plays the smoke an mirrors game (or perhaps its iCloud's fault) with your files.

Come again?

Ch
ChrisRosser
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:11 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, AU
Contact:

Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:17 am Post

Delete due to weird duplicate
Last edited by ChrisRosser on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mild-mannered Technical Writer by day, closet fantasist by night
I run Scrivener on macOS and iOS :mrgreen:
NanoWriMo| Twitter | Website | Facebook

Ch
ChrisRosser
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:11 pm
Platform: Mac + iOS
Location: Melbourne, AU
Contact:

Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:24 am Post

Delete due to weird duplicate
Last edited by ChrisRosser on Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mild-mannered Technical Writer by day, closet fantasist by night
I run Scrivener on macOS and iOS :mrgreen:
NanoWriMo| Twitter | Website | Facebook